Oldest "future-proofing" that never got used

[Truvelo]

M60 J6 (as originally built as M63 J8 with the single large roundabout) was built on the assumption that Hardy Lane would be extended to meet it on pretty much the same alignment now occupied by the Metrolink line.

Mauldeth Road West was destined for far greater things than just the Hardy Lane extension. For example the junction with Withington Road was going to look like this. East of Princess Road Mauldeth Road West was to follow the abandoned railway line and head towards Gorton along Wayland Road as another ring road around Manchester. This explains why Mauldeth Road West is dualled only west of Princess Road.

I would have thought the dualled section of Mauldeth Road was dualled (though not necessarily shown as such on OS maps) long before it was known the railway was going to be abandoned.

Dual carriageways even on A roads were not shown on OS 1" maps before about 1960. Some dual carriageways on B and yellow roads were still often not shown well after that date.

I stand corrected. Looking at the plans it would have run along the south side of the railway and not on it. Not the best quality image but it shows the railway appearing to remain intact. Also notice the Kingsway diversion avoiding the dogleg at Moseley Road.

[chaseracer]

The western side of the A86 near Versailles is even worse, 10.1km with a maximum vehicle height of 2.0m. Must be very strange, like driving through a multi-storey car park for 10 minutes

It's unusual in that it's a single bore tunnel with two carriageways - it's a double deck road in there. The associated HGV tunnel was planned but appears to have stalled. I've not had chance to drive it, I was last in Paris about 5 weeks before it opened.

Well, that's decided my route from Reims to Basse-Normandie in May. I need to see/drive this...

[Bfivethousand]

The western side of the A86 near Versailles is even worse, 10.1km with a maximum vehicle height of 2.0m. Must be very strange, like driving through a multi-storey car park for 10 minutes

It's unusual in that it's a single bore tunnel with two carriageways - it's a double deck road in there. The associated HGV tunnel was planned but appears to have stalled. I've not had chance to drive it, I was last in Paris about 5 weeks before it opened.

Well, that's decided my route from Reims to Basse-Normandie in May. I need to see/drive this...

How many of you did what I did... think "crikey, must look at that on StreetVi... D'OH!!!"

Off to non-height-limited YouTube then...

[chaseracer]

It's unusual in that it's a single bore tunnel with two carriageways - it's a double deck road in there. The associated HGV tunnel was planned but appears to have stalled. I've not had chance to drive it, I was last in Paris about 5 weeks before it opened.

Well, that's decided my route from Reims to Basse-Normandie in May. I need to see/drive this...

How many of you did what I did... think "crikey, must look at that on StreetVi... D'OH!!!"

Off to non-height-limited YouTube then...

I'm sure I have no idea what you mean...!

[spacetweek]

I'm sure I have no idea what you mean...!

Bfivethousand is referring to the fact that the 2-metre-high tunnel is missing from Google Streetview. This is of course because the Google car with its roof-mounted camera is too high for a 2 metre limit.
I made the same mistake!

[AlexBr967]

I know this topic is basically dead but thought I'd offer some examples I know:

Space for dual carriageway:
https://goo.gl/maps/qDAhXEh6JwQBevxr9 - wide bridge here and extra space along the road

Pointless dual carriageway as the road was supposed to be busier:
https://goo.gl/maps/2BkFLy1bhP9H2GC27 - the road was planned to connect to A61
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.82192 ... a=!3m1!1e3 - North parkway. Not sure about this one. Could just be aesthetic

Roundabouts:
https://goo.gl/maps/oeWT1SjhfCf1mgtL7 - unused arm for future bypass
https://goo.gl/maps/GT2j7oSoFZPkFuD38 - space for 2 lanes as road was supposed to continue straight. Later on SV space is used for new housing and eventual bypass.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.31665 ... a=!3m1!1e3 - flared
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.12592 ... a=!3m1!1e3 - flared
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.45641 ... a=!3m1!1e3 - prebuilt start of flyover.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.45490 ... a=!3m1!1e3 - prebuilt start of flyover on other side

[c2R]

Why I disagree is if you see this view. Maybe a limited height underpass, similar to this one

PS what does NMU stand for?

As far as I know it was for cycles, but given its position on the road, it was hardly safe provision for cyclists. I vaguely remember colleagues working on the Stevenage redundant roundabout project, which was this one - once upon a time you could u-turn here, or turn onto the field. That would be over 20 years ago. I think it was done at the same time as other roundabouts had a concrete barrier put around the centre island to protect the drop to the cycle path below, for example https://goo.gl/maps/ggY1HjYt8NWkmPPg8 . Much cheaper to take out the roundabout than to protect the drop down to poorly connected cycle infrastructure.

Looks low even for restricted height, and very steep for a GSJ.

Stevenage doesn't worry too much about steep roads at GSJs. https://goo.gl/maps/Pyu9FPenk6BSpPuQ7

Simon

IIRC that was never connected to the cycleway which runs along the south side of the road There is no sign of a bridge .

My point is the bridges are in the wrong place and too wide to be part of the cycleway

I lived in the area from the 80s to the 2000s and used the road regularly. During that time it had never been a cycleway, and the bridges were used as a roundabout to turn into the field at the beginning. I recall the underpass being used as additional/unofficial? parking at one time.

The bridges are too low for anything but cars, and are in the wrong position to be useful for cycle paths. My guess is that it was intended to be used as a car only underpass.

Much better here would have been to have a lower underpass and a green bridge to allow people exiting the football stadium to flood across to the parkland/car park opposite. Instead, people basically cross the road on foot - which I'm guessing is what the fence in the latest GSV is about....

I have to say I'm impressed with the realisation here, far too late, that grade separating the fence wasn't going to be useful - and ending up with a line of fence posts having now been installed half way through the underpass before they presumably realised and stopped it: https://www.google.com/maps/@51.8908126 ... 384!8i8192

[MotorwayGuy]

This road in Sidcup was built in the 1930's and was intended to link the A2 to the A20. The section on the other side of the tracks is a rather strange D1 setup. The houses along Willersley Avenue are also notably set back from the road, presumably to allow for widening to what would then have been an acceptable D2.

[Truvelo]

This road in Sidcup was built in the 1930's and was intended to link the A2 to the A20. The section on the other side of the tracks is a rather strange D1 setup. The houses along Willersley Avenue are also notably set back from the road, presumably to allow for widening to what would then have been an acceptable D2.

I also believe the nearby A223 was meant for something bigger. The roundabout between North Cray and Bexley is an unnatural point to end a piece of decent dual carriageway. An extension to the A2 is clearly evident but I have found absolutely nothing concerning it.

[graeme_t]

It was meant to continue as a Bexley bypass to the north-east then swing west over the railway to the Black Prince roundabout: https://www.bexley.gov.uk/sites/default ... y-1996.pdf. There is still a gap between the sports fields in the recreation ground to the north where the road would have gone.

It appeared on London A-Zs about that time too.

Edit: reading that leaflet suggests the existing roundabout would have gone, with the turning facilities being at the roundabout on Vicarage Road.

and there's a brief SABRE thread here: viewtopic.php?t=10351

[Bryn666]

I raise you with this GSJ from the mid 50's -- A602 South Stevenage

From GSV they look too low to be bridges for a GSJ. Were they not intended as NMU subways, similar to those at the roundabouts either side?

The unused carriageways suggest not - it is possible this was intended as a car only underpass like the hundreds across Paris.

[MotorwayGuy]

This road in Sidcup was built in the 1930's and was intended to link the A2 to the A20. The section on the other side of the tracks is a rather strange D1 setup. The houses along Willersley Avenue are also notably set back from the road, presumably to allow for widening to what would then have been an acceptable D2.

I also believe the nearby A223 was meant for something bigger. The roundabout between North Cray and Bexley is an unnatural point to end a piece of decent dual carriageway. An extension to the A2 is clearly evident but I have found absolutely nothing concerning it.

It was built in the 70s as the 1st phase of the plan to link what was then the A20 with the A2. Lots of historical buildings were demolished and North Cray basically ruined for a road that was never finished. The D2 originally opened as NSL but was reduced to 50 in I believe the 90s and then down to 40 in the early 2000s after a series of crossing fatalities.
An access road for the National Grid has recently appeared roughly along the alignment from that roundabout:
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4357539,0.1483234,3a,75y,101.1h,90.93t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s5CJO3hASjtke-p6vJUAM5w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[MotorwayGuy]

I raise you with this GSJ from the mid 50's -- A602 South Stevenage

From GSV they look too low to be bridges for a GSJ. Were they not intended as NMU subways, similar to those at the roundabouts either side?

The unused carriageways suggest not - it is possible this was intended as a car only underpass like the hundreds across Paris.

It's very unusual considering there are roundabouts only a few hundred yards on either side of it, both of which have pedestrian underpasses of a similar size. There is no obvious way this would connect with either, but a car underpass wouldn't make much sense here especially considering the road that the original roundabout served was only an access road.

[Bryn666]

From GSV they look too low to be bridges for a GSJ. Were they not intended as NMU subways, similar to those at the roundabouts either side?

The unused carriageways suggest not - it is possible this was intended as a car only underpass like the hundreds across Paris.

It's very unusual considering there are roundabouts only a few hundred yards on either side of it, both of which have pedestrian underpasses of a similar size. There is no obvious way this would connect with either, but a car underpass wouldn't make much sense here especially considering the road that the original roundabout served was only an access road.

In fairness a lot of 1960s plans made very little sense.

[Vierwielen]

Here is a bit of the A30 between Basingstoke and Camberley that was dualled in the 1960's. Only parts of the road were dualled. Hardly had these sections of dual carriageway been built than it was decided to build the M3 which would provide a bypass for both Basingstoke and Camberley. In recent years, hatching has been added to the dual sections of the A30 to convert those sections from D2 to D1 roads.

[ForestChav]

With Colliery Way (new bit of A6211) opening the other week, this bit of grassland set aside to continue the road down the hill looks a bit silly by itself now.

Especially with the short dog leg/multiplex with the B684 back to the old route.

[Chris Bertram]

With Colliery Way (new bit of A6211) opening the other week, this bit of grassland set aside to continue the road down the hill looks a bit silly by itself now.

Especially with the short dog leg/multiplex with the B684 back to the old route.

You don't think that someone will eventually put 2 and 2 together then?

[ForestChav]

With Colliery Way (new bit of A6211) opening the other week, this bit of grassland set aside to continue the road down the hill looks a bit silly by itself now.

Especially with the short dog leg/multiplex with the B684 back to the old route.

You don't think that someone will eventually put 2 and 2 together then?

I hope so... It's perhaps more silly now than with the old route and it can't take too much effort to drop it down the hill surely?

[JohnnyMo]

The unused carriageways suggest not - it is possible this was intended as a car only underpass like the hundreds across Paris.

It's very unusual considering there are roundabouts only a few hundred yards on either side of it, both of which have pedestrian underpasses of a similar size. There is no obvious way this would connect with either, but a car underpass wouldn't make much sense here especially considering the road that the original roundabout served was only an access road.

In fairness a lot of 1960s plans made very little sense.

See my explanation of the original 1948 plan for Stevenage, that roundabout was intended to be a terminal of the major N-S Grid road.

The original plan was for a grid road from here via what is now Fairlands Park to Martins Way.

Also this "dual carriageway" was meant to be Monkswood Way. Which is why Elder Way starts here. What was planned would be something like this

[Skinnylew]

This road in Sidcup was built in the 1930's and was intended to link the A2 to the A20. The section on the other side of the tracks is a rather strange D1 setup. The houses along Willersley Avenue are also notably set back from the road, presumably to allow for widening to what would then have been an acceptable D2.

I also believe the nearby A223 was meant for something bigger. The roundabout between North Cray and Bexley is an unnatural point to end a piece of decent dual carriageway. An extension to the A2 is clearly evident but I have found absolutely nothing concerning it.

It was built in the 70s as the 1st phase of the plan to link what was then the A20 with the A2. Lots of historical buildings were demolished and North Cray basically ruined for a road that was never finished. The D2 originally opened as NSL but was reduced to 50 in I believe the 90s and then down to 40 in the early 2000s after a series of crossing fatalities.
An access road for the National Grid has recently appeared roughly along the alignment from that roundabout:
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4357539,0.1483234,3a,75y,101.1h,90.93t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s5CJO3hASjtke-p6vJUAM5w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Couple of things on this - the land between the roundabout (that isn't a roundabout but a junction lol) and the Rugby club on Bourne Road is all still covenented hence why nothing has been built on it. The Sand and Ballast yard would be included in the proposed bypass. That said it is still unlikely to go ahead sadly, would massively ease the congestion through the village!
The connection of A20 - Harland Avenue - Hollies Avenue - Willersley Ave - The Oval - Wellington Ave has no obvious connection to the A2 as there is a flyover at Westwood Lane.