Anti Local Traffic Neighbourhood campaign in SE London

[trickstat]

Wasn't there a swing TO the Conservatives in Harrow unlike almost everywhere else in London, and the reason was apparently LTNs and their unpopularity. .

I think Harrow's LTNs were removed last year, so either wouldn't have factored in or would have come across (perhaps reasonably) as a waste of money. Apparently, local council tax was increased by the maximum amount for the last 8 years which was probably a bigger issue given the current climate around the cost of living.

Apparently another factor was the very strong Conservative vote amongst the Borough's large Indian population. A large proportion of these people are of Gujurati origin/descent who were enthused that BoJo had recently been the first British PM to visit Gujarat.

[Mapper89062]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66351785

Prime Minister Rishi Sunak has ordered a review of low traffic neighbourhoods (LTNs), saying that he is on the side of drivers.

Government funding for these schemes has been stopped earlier this month. If, as the article suggests, the existing schemes might have to be removed, then that would cause a problem as most of the ones in my area have been replaced with permanent fixtures.

[Bryn666]

More culture war nonsense from a failing and discredited prime minister.

This is really desperate vote bait for Daily Mail readers.

[Berk]

Could it be that they’re not actually popular across a broad sweep or the population??

It always amazes me that we offer old folks and disabled people a bus pass. Because many of these people have mobility issues which makes even getting to a bus stop difficult, let alone crossing a road.

A lot of these people rely on taxis. What do LTN’s do?? Restrict vehicle access.

Online grocery delivery?? What do LTN’s do?? Restrict vehicle access.

Heaven forbid you need a carer, nurse or doctor to visit you at home. What do LTN’s do?? Restrict vehicle access.

There’s this massive assumption that “entitled”, able-bodied car drivers will be the losers. It actually cuts a lot deeper than that.

Oh, and buses can’t get through too - so routes may have to be changed.

[fras]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66351785

Prime Minister Rishi Sunak has ordered a review of low traffic neighbourhoods (LTNs), saying that he is on the side of drivers.

Government funding for these schemes has been stopped earlier this month. If, as the article suggests, the existing schemes might have to be removed, then that would cause a problem as most of the ones in my area have been replaced with permanent fixtures.

It needs to be made much more widely known that all of these "schemes" were instigated by the Conservatives. Grant Shapps, I believe, and it was also he who released the powers within the Transport Management Act to councils outside London so they can enforce traffic offences. They can already enforce parking and bus lanes, of course. The bus lanes legislation is overtaken by the Traffic Mananagment Act 2004, (although not repealed), but councils applying for additional powers that are already enforcing bus lanes must convert to enforcement under the TMA 2004. There is a small upside to this, in that the TMA includes the statutory appeal ground of "procedural impropriety" for councils not following the process correctly, and also a 56 day limit on responding to representations against a PCN.

[Lockwood]

I remember a couple of years ago being sent on a job from North-ish London to a postcode that ended up being in the Hammersmith and Fulham area.
I don't know London that well - certainly not enough to get from Whittington/Royal Free/something like that to a random address somewhere. So, out comes the trusty sat nav...
Road closures. Road closures everywhere. I have honestly no idea how much time got added to that journey by going one way, U turning, going another way, U turning again... "Every journey matters" - as long as it is on public transport?

This was not a time critical journey.

[jabbaboy]

Could it be that they’re not actually popular across a broad sweep or the population??

It always amazes me that we offer old folks and disabled people a bus pass. Because many of these people have mobility issues which makes even getting to a bus stop difficult, let alone crossing a road.

A lot of these people rely on taxis. What do LTN’s do?? Restrict vehicle access.

Online grocery delivery?? What do LTN’s do?? Restrict vehicle access.

Heaven forbid you need a carer, nurse or doctor to visit you at home. What do LTN’s do?? Restrict vehicle access.

There’s this massive assumption that “entitled”, able-bodied car drivers will be the losers. It actually cuts a lot deeper than that.

Oh, and buses can’t get through too - so routes may have to be changed.

Then why are the same government leaders giving money out to do that exact thing...

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... llocations

It's desperate politics as mentioned before, and there's plenty Tory councils doing the exact same thing ie. Cambridge.

[Herned]

Could it be that they’re not actually popular across a broad sweep or the population??

If that were the case then anti-campaigners would have won comprehensively in local elections in recent years

They didn't, which is a much more representative exercise than the shouting on social media

[cb a1]

PM: "I've got an interview with the Sunday Telegraph. I need something that is cheap, popular with the base, and is a hot topic."

SpAd 1: "There's the recent by-election that we should have lost but won because of the opposition to the ULEZ. We could say we're going to get rid of ULEZs."

SpAd 2: "That's no good, ULEZs only cover a tiny part of the country and are often actually quite popular. No, we need something that can happen anywhere."

SpAd 1: "OK, what about LTNs. That's a real thorn across the country that we can press on."

Civil Servant: "I feel it's important Prime Minister to note that, promoting LTNs is actually your government's policy."

Comms: "Yes, but we can blame that on May or Johnson or something like that? I can brief the media on that point."

SpAd 2: "I feel I should point out Prime Minister that anti-LTN campaigners were not at all successful at the last local government elections."

Civil Servant: "In addition, I would note that technically LTNs are on local roads managed by the local roads authority. We don't have the power to remove them and they've been getting built for over 50 years and would cost billions to remove them."

SpAd 1: "Yes, but but but what if just say we're doing a review of LTNs? It doesn't commit us to anything, it's cheap and it won't actually report until after the next General Election by which point everyone will have forgotten about it anyway."

PM: "Hmm, I like it. I can say that I'm on the side of the hard-working motorist but I'm not committing to actually doing anything about it. Thanks team."

[Bonus point if you can guess what TV show I've recently been re-watching ]

[Chris Bertram]

Could it be that they’re not actually popular across a broad sweep or the population??

If that were the case then anti-campaigners would have won comprehensively in local elections in recent years

They didn't, which is a much more representative exercise than the shouting on social media

Local elections, like national elections, are not single-issue affairs. And often the area directly covered by an LTN is only a smallish part of a council ward, with no relevance to the rest. So it's hard to make it a dominant issue in its own right.

[AndyB]

Could it be that they’re not actually popular across a broad sweep or the population??

It always amazes me that we offer old folks and disabled people a bus pass. Because many of these people have mobility issues which makes even getting to a bus stop difficult, let alone crossing a road.

A lot of these people rely on taxis. What do LTN’s do?? Restrict vehicle access.

Online grocery delivery?? What do LTN’s do?? Restrict vehicle access.

Heaven forbid you need a carer, nurse or doctor to visit you at home. What do LTN’s do?? Restrict vehicle access.

There’s this massive assumption that “entitled”, able-bodied car drivers will be the losers. It actually cuts a lot deeper than that.

Oh, and buses can’t get through too - so routes may have to be changed.

I don’t think it’s at all accurate to suggest that vehicular access is being restricted. Can everyone wishing to visit premises in the LTN reach it by road? Yes they can, and what’s more the effect is the same as a one way system. If you want to drive somewhere on a one way street, you have to join it at the open end, but nobody is stopping you getting where you need to go.

It’s much the same with bus diversions, bearing in mind that wise planners won’t close off recognised deliberate through routes, and bus companies are on the list of consultees alongside the emergency services who are known for not objecting to LTNs. They might introduce a bus gate, though.

The only people actually being restricted are those who don’t need to be there. Just like “Except for access” restrictions.

[2 Sheds]

Could it be that they’re not actually popular across a broad sweep or the population??

It always amazes me that we offer old folks and disabled people a bus pass. Because many of these people have mobility issues which makes even getting to a bus stop difficult, let alone crossing a road.

A lot of these people rely on taxis. What do LTN’s do?? Restrict vehicle access.

Online grocery delivery?? What do LTN’s do?? Restrict vehicle access.

Heaven forbid you need a carer, nurse or doctor to visit you at home. What do LTN’s do?? Restrict vehicle access.

There’s this massive assumption that “entitled”, able-bodied car drivers will be the losers. It actually cuts a lot deeper than that.

Oh, and buses can’t get through too - so routes may have to be changed.

Not to mention ambulances and fire engines.

[WHBM]

Let's take this one, in SE London, which was apparently never a through traffic problem :

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4512298 ... ?entry=ttu

Now this lies between the two entrances to a major school, and has substantially disrupted their operation. Much despised by certain councillors, of course, because it is a private school, not a local authority one. Boy, what a chance to stuff them ...

[Vierwielen]

Let's take this one, in SE London, which was apparently never a through traffic problem :

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4512298 ... ?entry=ttu

Now this lies between the two entrances to a major school, and has substantially disrupted their operation. Much despised by certain councillors, of course, because it is a private school, not a local authority one. Boy, what a chance to stuff them ...

Shoulldn't there be a proper cul-de-sac sign here instead of this pathetic little yellow plate?

[Chris5156]

Let's take this one, in SE London, which was apparently never a through traffic problem :

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4512298 ... ?entry=ttu

Now this lies between the two entrances to a major school, and has substantially disrupted their operation. Much despised by certain councillors, of course, because it is a private school, not a local authority one. Boy, what a chance to stuff them ...

Why would you drive between the two entrances of the same school campus? Surely you’re driving to one or the other from somewhere else, in which case you choose a route on the appropriate side of the closure. What am I missing?

[Berk]

School buses might do this??

[AndyB]

Could it be that they’re not actually popular across a broad sweep or the population??

It always amazes me that we offer old folks and disabled people a bus pass. Because many of these people have mobility issues which makes even getting to a bus stop difficult, let alone crossing a road.

A lot of these people rely on taxis. What do LTN’s do?? Restrict vehicle access.

Online grocery delivery?? What do LTN’s do?? Restrict vehicle access.

Heaven forbid you need a carer, nurse or doctor to visit you at home. What do LTN’s do?? Restrict vehicle access.

There’s this massive assumption that “entitled”, able-bodied car drivers will be the losers. It actually cuts a lot deeper than that.

Oh, and buses can’t get through too - so routes may have to be changed.

Not to mention ambulances and fire engines.

Ambulance Service and Fire Services don't object to LTNs. Nor do the police.

[Berk]

Has policy forbidden them from doing so?? Officially, or just an unspoken/unwritten one??

[Chris Bertram]

Could it be that they’re not actually popular across a broad sweep or the population??

It always amazes me that we offer old folks and disabled people a bus pass. Because many of these people have mobility issues which makes even getting to a bus stop difficult, let alone crossing a road.

A lot of these people rely on taxis. What do LTN’s do?? Restrict vehicle access.

Online grocery delivery?? What do LTN’s do?? Restrict vehicle access.

Heaven forbid you need a carer, nurse or doctor to visit you at home. What do LTN’s do?? Restrict vehicle access.

There’s this massive assumption that “entitled”, able-bodied car drivers will be the losers. It actually cuts a lot deeper than that.

Oh, and buses can’t get through too - so routes may have to be changed.

Not to mention ambulances and fire engines.

Ambulance Service and Fire Services don't object to LTNs. Nor do the police.

Not publicly; they are reluctant to be seen to be rocking the boat. But concerns have been expressed off the record by drivers and operators concerning circuitous journeys and the delays introduced by that and the issues involved in turning around in blind streets with no turning facilities. To interpret their silence as approval would be wide of the mark.

[jabbaboy]

Not to mention ambulances and fire engines.

Ambulance Service and Fire Services don't object to LTNs. Nor do the police.

Not publicly; they are reluctant to be seen to be rocking the boat. But concerns have been expressed off the record by drivers and operators concerning circuitous journeys and the delays introduced by that and the issues involved in turning around in blind streets with no turning facilities. To interpret their silence as approval would be wide of the mark.

I can't comment on individual schemes, but surely it would be better for them, even knowing they have to travel a little bit further. It's better than trying to squeeze through in a fire engine, in particular, in gaps that are wide enough to for a car only while cars are rat running through. Now they've got a free road albeit slightly further in distance to get there in most schemes.