Sorry, I dislike the existing one having such a seemingly important number. If it is even deserving of a designation of its own, then I'd demote it to M4xx status.Bryn666 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 10:40And what happens to the current M45?
The M6 Toll is an abomination
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Re: The M6 Toll is an abomination
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Re: The M6 Toll is an abomination
M45x would save money on signage.
Re: The M6 Toll is an abomination
Don't even joke about it...
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
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Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
- Alderpoint
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Re: The M6 Toll is an abomination
Never understood the fascination (paranoia?) on here about road numbering - whether A-/B-roads or motorways. The vast majority of the population really don't care what a road is numbered, just that it quickly and efficiently gets them too their destination.
(I now expect a whole bunch of post telling me I'm wrong, which rather would prove my point....)
Let it snow.
Re: The M6 Toll is an abomination
No, you're right but equally the point of a "good" numbering system is it aids navigation without you needing to understand complex rules or historical minutae. The M45 leading into the A45 aided navigation in 1959 as well as adhered to the rules that had been laid down.Alderpoint wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 20:50Never understood the fascination (paranoia?) on here about road numbering - whether A-/B-roads or motorways. The vast majority of the population really don't care what a road is numbered, just that it quickly and efficiently gets them too their destination.
(I now expect a whole bunch of post telling me I'm wrong, which rather would prove my point....)
The M10 did similar, it was an important branch off the M1, in fact in the earliest days it was more important than the M1 as the A6/A1 route as was into London was better than the A41/A1 route.
This is why no one cares that the M48 and M49 are wrongly numbered - to the average punter they're motorways connected to the M4 and sound important enough to entice you onto them.
However there's no excuse for nonsense like there being two A6055 routes, or the B77, or B38. This is just lazy administration by people who DGAF about their work.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
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Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: The M6 Toll is an abomination
I have so much fun here in Spain watching some guy scream past me, then get stuck at the queue as they dont have a tag, while I just cruse through the VIA-T lane. Kind of dont get the logic of somebody that a) takes the toll road, b) speeds like crazy then c) waits in a queue as they wont pay for a tag
- Vierwielen
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Re: The M6 Toll is an abomination
Now why do we not advertise the E-routes? In certain cases, they provide an altenative numbering system and unlike Britsh road numbers, follow routes rather than roads.Alderpoint wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 20:50 Never understood the fascination (paranoia?) on here about road numbering - whether A-/B-roads or motorways. The vast majority of the population really don't care what a road is numbered, just that it quickly and efficiently gets them too their destination.
(I now expect a whole bunch of post telling me I'm wrong, which rather would prove my point....)
- Chris Bertram
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Re: The M6 Toll is an abomination
Some variety of civil service gold-plating of the conditions and standards of the roads involved, I think. Combined with a dollop of "not invented here".Vierwielen wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 17:43Now why do we not advertise the E-routes? In certain cases, they provide an altenative numbering system and unlike Britsh road numbers, follow routes rather than roads.Alderpoint wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 20:50 Never understood the fascination (paranoia?) on here about road numbering - whether A-/B-roads or motorways. The vast majority of the population really don't care what a road is numbered, just that it quickly and efficiently gets them too their destination.
(I now expect a whole bunch of post telling me I'm wrong, which rather would prove my point....)
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Re: The M6 Toll is an abomination
Also the view they're not actually helpful on an island. We had provision to sign them in the original Anderson Report and TSRGDs 1975 and 1981.Chris Bertram wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 20:49Some variety of civil service gold-plating of the conditions and standards of the roads involved, I think. Combined with a dollop of "not invented here".Vierwielen wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 17:43Now why do we not advertise the E-routes? In certain cases, they provide an altenative numbering system and unlike Britsh road numbers, follow routes rather than roads.Alderpoint wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 20:50 Never understood the fascination (paranoia?) on here about road numbering - whether A-/B-roads or motorways. The vast majority of the population really don't care what a road is numbered, just that it quickly and efficiently gets them too their destination.
(I now expect a whole bunch of post telling me I'm wrong, which rather would prove my point....)
Likewise I'm not sure why Ireland has them signposted either other than perhaps to say "thanks for the cash". There's no navigational benefit whatsoever to having the E1 and E201 signed in Ireland.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
- Vierwielen
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Re: The M6 Toll is an abomination
On the contrary. Our road numbering is London-oriented. The E-routes are useful for those people, particulary visitors from the Continent, who are seeking to by-pass London.Bryn666 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 21:13Also the view they're not actually helpful on an island. We had provision to sign them in the original Anderson Report and TSRGDs 1975 and 1981.Chris Bertram wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 20:49Some variety of civil service gold-plating of the conditions and standards of the roads involved, I think. Combined with a dollop of "not invented here".Vierwielen wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 17:43
Now why do we not advertise the E-routes? In certain cases, they provide an altenative numbering system and unlike Britsh road numbers, follow routes rather than roads.
Likewise I'm not sure why Ireland has them signposted either other than perhaps to say "thanks for the cash". There's no navigational benefit whatsoever to having the E1 and E201 signed in Ireland.
Re: The M6 Toll is an abomination
Erm, the M25 does that? Likewise the A10 and A104 around Berlin and Paris respectively don't need to have or sign their E numbers because funnily enough people can follow the national ones...Vierwielen wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 21:27On the contrary. Our road numbering is London-oriented. The E-routes are useful for those people, particulary visitors from the Continent, who are seeking to by-pass London.Bryn666 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 21:13Also the view they're not actually helpful on an island. We had provision to sign them in the original Anderson Report and TSRGDs 1975 and 1981.Chris Bertram wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 20:49 Some variety of civil service gold-plating of the conditions and standards of the roads involved, I think. Combined with a dollop of "not invented here".
Likewise I'm not sure why Ireland has them signposted either other than perhaps to say "thanks for the cash". There's no navigational benefit whatsoever to having the E1 and E201 signed in Ireland.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
- ravenbluemoon
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Re: The M6 Toll is an abomination
I actually quite like a logical numbering system for navigating. For me, a bunch of numbers like A617, A46, A1, A14, M11 is easier for me to follow than having to remember Newark, Alconbury, Cambridge, Bishop's Stortford... plus which way I need to turn at each waypoint!Alderpoint wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 20:50 Never understood the fascination (paranoia?) on here about road numbering - whether A-/B-roads or motorways. The vast majority of the population really don't care what a road is numbered, just that it quickly and efficiently gets them too their destination.
It's why I'm still a little iffy at navigating my way around Gothenburg. For a city that's bigger than Nottingham or Sheffield, the only numbered routes in the area are E6, E45, E20, and Highways 40 and 158. The swanky new Marieholm tunnel under the river doesn't even get a number! Nottingham certainly has a lot more than that. So quite often I'll be trying to find somewhere out of town and I'll be wondering whether or not the non-descript expressway is the Västerleden or Dag Hammarskjöldsleden - especially when the signage on both roads tell you it's going to some little town outside the municipality!
Of course, this isn't so much of an issue with Satnav, so maybe I'm not representative of that "vast majority of the population" (like, I'm not, ever... )
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Re: The M6 Toll is an abomination
You're not wrong at all - the vast majority of road users have no interest in road numbers.... But then the vast majority of road users are not members of SABRE either, and certainly wouldn't describe themselves as 'road enthusiasts'!Alderpoint wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 20:50 Never understood the fascination (paranoia?) on here about road numbering - whether A-/B-roads or motorways. The vast majority of the population really don't care what a road is numbered, just that it quickly and efficiently gets them too their destination.
(I now expect a whole bunch of post telling me I'm wrong, which rather would prove my point....)
It was probably the numbers (and the relationship of roads to cars and driving) that got me interested in roads in the first place. Everybody will have their own different reasons for the interest, and some of us happen to be interested in the numbers.
A fundamental aversion to anything 'European'... ?Vierwielen wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 17:43 Now why do we not advertise the E-routes? In certain cases, they provide an altenative numbering system and unlike Britsh road numbers, follow routes rather than roads.
Seriously, though, even I couldn't really see the point of signing them! I've never paid any attention to them when driving across the Continent.... Absolutely none whatsoever.
Re: The M6 Toll is an abomination
Introduce signing of E routes now and lots of people would start screaming "BUT B WORD".
Make poetry history.
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Re: The M6 Toll is an abomination
Well I have a satnav but I still have my own system which consists of a pad of paper and pen with a list of waypoints and roads thusravenbluemoon wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 23:26 I actually quite like a logical numbering system for navigating. For me, a bunch of numbers like A617, A46, A1, A14, M11 is easier for me to follow than having to remember Newark, Alconbury, Cambridge, Bishop's Stortford... plus which way I need to turn at each waypoint!
It's why I'm still a little iffy at navigating my way around Gothenburg. For a city that's bigger than Nottingham or Sheffield, the only numbered routes in the area are E6, E45, E20, and Highways 40 and 158. The swanky new Marieholm tunnel under the river doesn't even get a number! Nottingham certainly has a lot more than that. So quite often I'll be trying to find somewhere out of town and I'll be wondering whether or not the non-descript expressway is the Västerleden or Dag Hammarskjöldsleden - especially when the signage on both roads tell you it's going to some little town outside the municipality!
Of course, this isn't so much of an issue with Satnav, so maybe I'm not representative of that "vast majority of the population" (like, I'm not, ever... )
A172 to Nunthorpe
A1043 to A171
A171 to Guisborough etc
Of course I also have a road atlas that proved invaluable in North Wales last summer finding my way around the roads they closed to build the Caernarfon bypass.
- Chris Bertram
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Re: The M6 Toll is an abomination
Even though E-routes are nothing to do with the EU (yes, I know you knew that already) but a subcommittee of the UN.
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Re: The M6 Toll is an abomination
Which indicate their level of ignorance given the fact that the E Road is a UNECE initiative that predates the EU by decades.
Frankly introducing it would be no big deal , a few supplementary signs such as E5 or E15 would actually make sense and on route confirmation signs all that would be needed is a green sticker
Re: The M6 Toll is an abomination
It was permitted between 1959 and 1994 but no one, even at the height of us being keen Europeans, saw any benefit. No one travelling to the UK is bothered about following the E13, they'll just follow M1. Even Google Maps doesn't bother to list the E routes that cross the UK.KeithW wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 10:43Which indicate their level of ignorance given the fact that the E Road is a UNECE initiative that predates the EU by decades.
Frankly introducing it would be no big deal , a few supplementary signs such as E5 or E15 would actually make sense and on route confirmation signs all that would be needed is a green sticker
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: The M6 Toll is an abomination
Google maps can be OK at providing lists of turns along with the signs to follow. I think it possibly reads the signs in from Google Street View. A hyper-simplified navigation system which produced lists of directions like "follow A702 south for 50 miles then A74(M) south (Carlisle)" would be quite nice for long distance travel and much preferable to a big list of well-signed roundabouts/forks where your onward route is obvious. Of course it would require quite a lot of intelligence to understand the details of interchanges to avoid going "follow A702 then unnamed road then unnamed road then A75(M)" and good knowledge of signage on the ground.KeithW wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 10:36Well I have a satnav but I still have my own system which consists of a pad of paper and pen with a list of waypoints and roads thusravenbluemoon wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 23:26 I actually quite like a logical numbering system for navigating. For me, a bunch of numbers like A617, A46, A1, A14, M11 is easier for me to follow than having to remember Newark, Alconbury, Cambridge, Bishop's Stortford... plus which way I need to turn at each waypoint!
It's why I'm still a little iffy at navigating my way around Gothenburg. For a city that's bigger than Nottingham or Sheffield, the only numbered routes in the area are E6, E45, E20, and Highways 40 and 158. The swanky new Marieholm tunnel under the river doesn't even get a number! Nottingham certainly has a lot more than that. So quite often I'll be trying to find somewhere out of town and I'll be wondering whether or not the non-descript expressway is the Västerleden or Dag Hammarskjöldsleden - especially when the signage on both roads tell you it's going to some little town outside the municipality!
Of course, this isn't so much of an issue with Satnav, so maybe I'm not representative of that "vast majority of the population" (like, I'm not, ever... )
A172 to Nunthorpe
A1043 to A171
A171 to Guisborough etc
Of course I also have a road atlas that proved invaluable in North Wales last summer finding my way around the roads they closed to build the Caernarfon bypass.