The M6 Toll is an abomination

[DanT97]

Here are a few reasons why the M6 Toll is a disgrace:

1. The name doesn’t make any sense and doesn’t comply with naming regulations. This motorway should be the M600, though its Birmingham location suggests that it should have an M4x number.

2. The highways authorities are too stupid to abolish the tolls, which would save money as you would no longer have to pay toll collectors and maintain toll infrastructure. Also, more people would use the motorway now. Why should I pay the tolls when I’m already paying car tax.

3. It is one of the quietest motorways on the network even though it connects to my one of the busiest motorways on the network.

Feel free to discuss these points, and express your feelings toward this road.

[Vierwielen]

One must remember that the M6 Toll was financed by private money and the people who put up the money expect to make a profit. The toll cannot be abolished unless the government buys the M6 Toll from its owners. If they try to make a compulsory purchase, the owners will fight the issue in the courts and they will antagonise any future entrepeneurs who might be invited to bid to run and operate infrastructure projects.

[thomas417]

I agree it's a nonsense and given the way it's been designed and built should be M6 with the existing route taking another number. It was put up for sale in 2017 but the government chose not not to buy it so I guess we'll be waiting for a bit yet until the opportunity comes round again.

[Phil]

Technically the M6 Toll is actually owned by the Government - but its a PFI style contract where the right to run it and collect toll revenue was given to the builders / owners for 100 years (or something like that) before it reverts to the state.

The Channel Tunnel is in fact structured in the same way and technically is, when you drill down far enough, actually Government owned.

This is done so as to protect the Government from the infrastructure being dismantled should the entity end up going bust, but in true compliance with free market ideology minimises the effects on the Governments financial obligations when it comes to building and running the thing.

With the recent M6 Toll sale what the Government chose not to do was buy out the rest of the operating contract for the M6 toll road and let it be passed on to someone else for the rest of the PFI term.

[KeithW]

Here are a few reasons why the M6 Toll is a disgrace:

1. The name doesn’t make any sense and doesn’t comply with naming regulations. This motorway should be the M600, though its Birmingham location suggests that it should have an M5x number.

2. The highways authorities are too stupid to abolish the tolls, which would save money as you would no longer have to pay toll collectors and maintain toll infrastructure. Also, more people would use the motorway now. Why should I pay the tolls when I’m already paying car tax.

3. It is one of the quietest motorways on the network even though it connects to my one of the busiest motorways on the network.

Feel free to discuss these points, and express your feelings toward this road.

You seem to have missed a few points

1) The original name assigned was I believe the A446(M) but the operators, Midland Expressway a private company NOT the Highways Authorities presumably preferred M6(T) because it was a toll road aimed at reducing traffic on the M6 which does have a certain logic.

2) The operator, a private company called IFM who also own the Manchester Airports Group, Anglian Water and Arqiva does not to my knowledge receive any funding from car tax. Strictly speaking I believe the road is owned by the government but leased to the operator. One of many PFI initiatives.

3) The M6(T) carries over 40,000 vehicles per day and I regularly used it travelling from Cambridge to Warrington, of course being able get the money back from employer helped as did being able to drive on quietish D3(M) motorway with an excellent service area about half way on my trip. Its a rather pleasant trip in my experience.

Last but not least nobody is forcing you to use it, there are many alternatives including the A5, A50 and M6, I I am paying I typically the the A50 is my route of choice.

[Ruperts Trooper]

Technically the M6 Toll is actually owned by the Government - but its a PFI style contract where the right to run it and collect toll revenue was given to the builders / owners for 100 years (or something like that) before it reverts to the state.

The Channel Tunnel is in fact structured in the same way and technically is, when you drill down far enough, actually Government owned.

This is done so as to protect the Government from the infrastructure being dismantled should the entity end up going bust, but in true compliance with free market ideology minimises the effects on the Governments financial obligations when it comes to building and running the thing.

With the recent M6 Toll sale what the Government chose not to do was buy out the rest of the operating contract for the M6 toll road and let it be passed on to someone else for the rest of the PFI term.

The M6 Toll is on a 53 year lease - 3 years for construction and 50 years of operation when it then reverts to public "ownership".

[Bryn666]

Car tax doesn't pay for roads. It's an emissions charge based on how much CO2 your car chucks out and it goes into the general revenue pot, some of which comes back as highways spending.

If anything driving is still effectively subsidised as in real terms motoring costs have decreased year on year whilst other transport choices have risen in excess of inflation many years running. People are in for a nasty shock when the true externalities of driving are factored into the price of owning a car. 6 quid to drive 27 miles looks a bargain all of a sudden.

[Helvellyn]

Car tax doesn't pay for roads. It's an emissions charge based on how much CO2 your car chucks out and it goes into the general revenue pot, some of which comes back as highways spending.

If anything driving is still effectively subsidised as in real terms motoring costs have decreased year on year whilst other transport choices have risen in excess of inflation many years running. People are in for a nasty shock when the true externalities of driving are factored into the price of owning a car. 6 quid to drive 27 miles looks a bargain all of a sudden.

Subsidised from what? I find it a little hard to believe that other forms of transport are paying for motorists and not the other way around. To measure the amount of tax gained from motoring you should also include that raised via tax and VAT on fuel.

[DanT97]

Perhaps the apt question here would be: Why aren’t my taxes/government funds paying for the M6 Toll?

Also, you might ask, what is the Toll money actually used for?

[Bryn666]

https://ipayroadtax.com/no-such-thing-a ... -motoring/

The RAC themselves, that well known anti-motorist group, commissioned the research.

It's an inconvenient truth for the "driving is too expensive" lobby. The research goes back even further, as early as 1994 newspapers like the Independent were flagging up that the "costs" poor addled motorists are saying are too much are nowhere near enough to maintain the infrastructure we have, let alone provide new.

On a more simple level, say you park your car for free on a public highway. That vehicle damages the surface of the road, but you never have to pay directly for that upkeep. There is no "polluter pays" with driving, society bears the cost instead - hence why it's said that driving is effectively subsidised. The answers with driving externalities are in plain sight unless you don't want to hear them.

[Bryn666]

Perhaps the apt question here would be: Why aren’t my taxes/government funds paying for the M6 Toll?

Also, you might ask, what is the Toll money actually used for?

Your taxes go into a general government fund that is distributed amongst every competing need. It is not subdivided into "things you want to pay for and things you do not want to pay for".

Lets turn it on its head; why should general taxation that also has to pay for schools and hospitals be spent on providing drivers with a bypass for a motorway that already exists and is, except at the heaviest of peak times, still relatively faster than any of the local roads it has relieved in the last 50 years?

Do you want an itemised council tax bill? You may find you suddenly owe your local authority thousands for highways maintenance.

As for where the M6 toll revenue goes: maintenance and staff costs. Some of it will go into investment funds which might just include your future pension.

[owen b]

The name doesn’t make any sense and doesn’t comply with naming regulations.

Which naming regulations exactly?

The highways authorities are too stupid to abolish the tolls, which would save money as you would no longer have to pay toll collectors and maintain toll infrastructure.

The toll collects something of the order of 40,000 * £7 daily = £280,000. Annually that's about £100 million, a sum which I am confident is much more than the payroll costs of the toll collectors and the cost of maintaining the toll infrastructure.

[Herned]

2. The highways authorities are too stupid to abolish the tolls, which would save money as you would no longer have to pay toll collectors and maintain toll infrastructure. Also, more people would use the motorway now. Why should I pay the tolls when I’m already paying car tax.

I'm not sure how serious your statement is? The "highway authorities", by which I assume you mean the Department for Transport, are well aware of the contract that is in place for the road, and despite certain attitudes to rules at the moment, don't generally break contracts. The contract will have some mechanism for the state to take control, probably some sort of discounted cash flow figure - 10x annual revenue or something. So the government (taxpayer), would need to fork out £1bn to buy a road, and be on the hook for maintenance for the next 30 years.

Or alternatively, people who value their time and don't want to look at Walsall again can pay for it themselves. Tricky

[geofftswin]

I have absolutely no issues with the naming/numbering - it offers an alternative to the M6 at the cost of paying a toll and I note that it is slightly unusual as a motorway in connecting to the same motorway at both ends (only other example I can think of is the M48 which used to also be a toll motorway if you drove the entire length).

Whenever I've driven on it, it seems much busier than the M50 (for example). We used to use it reasonably frequently after it opened as my parents lived literally 5 minutes off T6 and so our journey time from Berkshire had been reduced by at least 30 minutes.

My only objection was the pricing as it was cheaper to go to my parents than it was to come back home.

[Bryn666]

The name doesn’t make any sense and doesn’t comply with naming regulations.

Which naming regulations exactly?

The highways authorities are too stupid to abolish the tolls, which would save money as you would no longer have to pay toll collectors and maintain toll infrastructure.

The toll collects something of the order of 40,000 * £7 daily = £280,000. Annually that's about £100 million, a sum which I am confident is much more than the payroll costs of the toll collectors and the cost of maintaining the toll infrastructure.

The best figure I found was £90m toll revenue and an extra £4.2m from Norton Canes.

[owen b]

The name doesn’t make any sense and doesn’t comply with naming regulations.

Which naming regulations exactly?

The highways authorities are too stupid to abolish the tolls, which would save money as you would no longer have to pay toll collectors and maintain toll infrastructure.

The toll collects something of the order of 40,000 * £7 daily = £280,000. Annually that's about £100 million, a sum which I am confident is much more than the payroll costs of the toll collectors and the cost of maintaining the toll infrastructure.

The best figure I found was £90m toll revenue and an extra £4.2m from Norton Canes.

So not a bad guesstimate then.

[KeithW]

Perhaps the apt question here would be: Why aren’t my taxes/government funds paying for the M6 Toll?

Also, you might ask, what is the Toll money actually used for?

To pay dividends to the shareholders , cover running costs which includes maintenance and pay off outstanding borrowing just like any other Public Limited Company.
The accounts are freely available from companies house.
https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/docu ... 7e0429ca6c

[Helvellyn]

https://ipayroadtax.com/no-such-thing-a ... -motoring/

Oh, it's one of those. Lump in all sorts of things, somehow assign a "cost" to them, and say it's all about motoring. Nope, doesn't do it for me. Even if I accepted those attempts at putting a price on the negatives of road transport and claiming that means they're being subsidised it fails to include an equivalent set of benefits.

[DanT97]

Perhaps the apt question here would be: Why aren’t my taxes/government funds paying for the M6 Toll?

Also, you might ask, what is the Toll money actually used for?

To pay dividends to the shareholders , cover running costs which includes maintenance and pay off outstanding borrowing just like any other Public Limited Company.
The accounts are freely available from companies house.
https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/docu ... 7e0429ca6c

And what is preventing the relevant authorities from funding this from the same money that looks after every other motorway in the entire country?

[Big L]

And what is preventing the relevant authorities from funding this from the same money that looks after every other motorway in the entire country?

A contract I would imagine.