Sorry, I couldn't locate the old C-Road thread so here goes:
Please see the reply I posted from new member dmccormick, and give hima welcome (I know you will because of the rareesoteric value of his comments)!
Paul
C-Roads in NI
Moderator: Site Management Team
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dmccormick
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- Location: Northern Ireland
Hi there,
David McCormick here, Paul posted my initial comments in the "New Members' Replies", but here is an extract:
<<My grandfather, who worked in the Northern Ireland Roads Service has a set of 1:63360 maps covering all of Northern Ireland, which have most of the C-roads of Northern Ireland drawn on to them in green pen. I undertook the laborious task of copying the C-roads from the old inch maps to the new 1:50000 Discoverer Series, similar to the mainland's Landranger series, though the Discoverer ones only cover 40km by 30km, as opposed to 40km by 40km for the Landranger series.>>
As there are over 600, yes, six hundred C-roads in Northern Ireland it's going to take quite a while to list them all. Unlike the Northern Irish A- and B-road numbering, there is actually quite a logical pattern to them:
David McCormick here, Paul posted my initial comments in the "New Members' Replies", but here is an extract:
<<My grandfather, who worked in the Northern Ireland Roads Service has a set of 1:63360 maps covering all of Northern Ireland, which have most of the C-roads of Northern Ireland drawn on to them in green pen. I undertook the laborious task of copying the C-roads from the old inch maps to the new 1:50000 Discoverer Series, similar to the mainland's Landranger series, though the Discoverer ones only cover 40km by 30km, as opposed to 40km by 40km for the Landranger series.>>
As there are over 600, yes, six hundred C-roads in Northern Ireland it's going to take quite a while to list them all. Unlike the Northern Irish A- and B-road numbering, there is actually quite a logical pattern to them:
- C1-150 is Co. Antrim
- C151-250 is Co. Armagh
- C251-400 is Co. Down
- C401-500 is Co. Fermanagh
- C501-600 is Co. Derry/Londonderry
- C601-700 is Co. Tyrone
- C704 (the only C7xx I've seen on the maps) is in Central Belfast.</UL> As you can see, the list quite clearly goes in alphabetical order of County name, provided you take Co. Derry/Londonderry as Londonderry.
However, I'll start with the C1, which ironically no longer exists!
C1(no longer exists) B23 Malone Road to B102 Andersonstown Road, Belfast. Ran along Balmoral Avenue and Stockman's Lane. Later incorporated into the A55.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Grid reference: J325703 to J305715.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
The C1 has perhaps the unique honour of being the only C-road signed once signposted from a motorway. The C1 no longer exists ? it was absorbed by the A55 Belfast Outer Ring sometime in the late 1960s/early 1970s. The A55 is somewhat similar in origins to the M60 in Manchester ? it was cobbled together from old roads. The main eastern section, from Tillysburn to Purdysburn, most of which is either four-lane dual or four-lane single, was formerly a back route from Holywood to Lisburn, bypassing most of the city. As the city grew, it was clear a ring road was needed. This former route formed the basis of the A55. However, west of where the B23 to Lisburn diverges from the A55, the A55 has to make do with city roads ? one of which was the C1. It was reclassified as A55 as part of the Outer Ring. In 1962, the C1 was given an interchange with the M1, the South Approach Motorway to Belfast. This was well before its potential was realised ? the M1 J2 with the A55 (former C1) is now one of the most important junctions, mostly providing traffic from Lisburn and Portadown with a bypass route to get to Bangor and Newtownabbey.
More will be posted as I have the time to look them up.
Enjoy,
David McCormick
A regular member here, Chris5156, maintains a page of C-Roads, sightings of which are pretty rare due to the lack of public documentation of their existence. Given the reams of stuff you're posting, I think he'll have a hard time catching up (this is all good btw).
You've made a grand entrace already. Thanks!
Paul
You've made a grand entrace already. Thanks!
Paul
Regards,
Paul
Paul
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dmccormick
- Member
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- Location: Northern Ireland
This is a repost of Message 3, which came out very strange indeed.
OK, here's the first batch: C251-261, plus the oddly numbered C368, which really belongs somewhere between the C251 and the C252.
C251B20 Crawfordsburn to A20 Newtownards. Runs along the Cootehall Road, multiplexes with the B170 for a short distance along the Ballysallagh Road, and then runs along the Crawfordsburn Road, Newtownards.
Grid reference: J468813 via J470800 and J470790 to J485742
C368(formerly B109) A2 west of Bangor to A48 Six Road Ends. Runs along the Rathgael Road, multiplexes with the A20 for a short distance along the Newtownards Road, then runs along the Green Road, Conlig.
Grid reference: J478800 via J500794 and J502786 to J529782
C252A2 Bangor to C255 Carrowdore, via the Six Road Ends. Runs along Castle Street, Bangor, Gransha Road, Bangor, and Upper Gransha Road, Bangor, towards Carrowdore.
Grid reference: J505816 via J529782 to J577719
C253B172 halfway between Newtownards and Millisle to A2 Donaghadee. Runs along Kilaughey Road, Donaghadee.
Grid reference: J547759 via J587787 to J592797
C254A20 south of Newtownards to C255 north of Carrowdore via Ballywatticock.
Grid reference: J515718 via J565734 to J580738
C255Millisle to B5 Greyabbey via Carrowdore.
Grid reference: J597761 via J580738, J577719 and J574713 to J582682
C256A20 halfway between Newtownards and Greyabbey to A2 just north of Ballywalter.
Grid reference: J541705 via J574713 to J628696
C257A2 south of Ballywalter to A20 north of Kircubbin.
Grid reference: J632673 to J59464
C258A20 Kircubbin to A2 Ballyhalbert. Presumably extended over the former A2 when the A2 was rerouted seawards.
Grid reference: J599627 via J635628 (original end) to J645638
C259A20 Ardkeen to A2 south of Cloughey.
Grid reference: J601567 to J623554
C260A2 Cloughey to A2 Portaferry, via a more coastal route than the A2.
Grid reference: J635562 via J643515 and J596503 to J593507.
C261Route through the centre of Portavogie, A2 to A2. The A2 runs slightly further west.
Grid reference: J661607 via J660599 to J695595; Spur from J660599 to J655599
David McCormick
OK, here's the first batch: C251-261, plus the oddly numbered C368, which really belongs somewhere between the C251 and the C252.
C251B20 Crawfordsburn to A20 Newtownards. Runs along the Cootehall Road, multiplexes with the B170 for a short distance along the Ballysallagh Road, and then runs along the Crawfordsburn Road, Newtownards.
Grid reference: J468813 via J470800 and J470790 to J485742
C368(formerly B109) A2 west of Bangor to A48 Six Road Ends. Runs along the Rathgael Road, multiplexes with the A20 for a short distance along the Newtownards Road, then runs along the Green Road, Conlig.
Grid reference: J478800 via J500794 and J502786 to J529782
C252A2 Bangor to C255 Carrowdore, via the Six Road Ends. Runs along Castle Street, Bangor, Gransha Road, Bangor, and Upper Gransha Road, Bangor, towards Carrowdore.
Grid reference: J505816 via J529782 to J577719
C253B172 halfway between Newtownards and Millisle to A2 Donaghadee. Runs along Kilaughey Road, Donaghadee.
Grid reference: J547759 via J587787 to J592797
C254A20 south of Newtownards to C255 north of Carrowdore via Ballywatticock.
Grid reference: J515718 via J565734 to J580738
C255Millisle to B5 Greyabbey via Carrowdore.
Grid reference: J597761 via J580738, J577719 and J574713 to J582682
C256A20 halfway between Newtownards and Greyabbey to A2 just north of Ballywalter.
Grid reference: J541705 via J574713 to J628696
C257A2 south of Ballywalter to A20 north of Kircubbin.
Grid reference: J632673 to J59464
C258A20 Kircubbin to A2 Ballyhalbert. Presumably extended over the former A2 when the A2 was rerouted seawards.
Grid reference: J599627 via J635628 (original end) to J645638
C259A20 Ardkeen to A2 south of Cloughey.
Grid reference: J601567 to J623554
C260A2 Cloughey to A2 Portaferry, via a more coastal route than the A2.
Grid reference: J635562 via J643515 and J596503 to J593507.
C261Route through the centre of Portavogie, A2 to A2. The A2 runs slightly further west.
Grid reference: J661607 via J660599 to J695595; Spur from J660599 to J655599
David McCormick
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dmccormick
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- Location: Northern Ireland
OK, batch 2. C262-274 plus C367, which like the C368 is out of place. I've reordered the list slightly to make more geographical sense.
C262Dundonald to Helen's Bay via Craigantlet. Runs along Graham's Bridge Road, Church Road, Robb's Road, Dunlady Road, all in Dundonald, then multiplexes with the B170 for a short distance along Whinney Hill, then runs along the Ballymoney Road, multiplexes with the A2 for a short distance along the Belfast/Bangor Road, then runs along the Craigdarragh Road, Fort Road, Church Road, Bridge Road and Bridge Road South, all in Helen's Bay, before ending on the B20 Ballyrobert Road in Crawfordsburn. Whew!
Grid reference: J423731 via J423740, J438769, J443810 and J459829 to J462814
C263Holywood to C264 Killarn, west of Newtownards. Runs via Whinney Hill, Holywood and Craigantlet Road, Newtownards.
Grid reference: J412798 via J436770 to J456753
C264Alternative Route, A20 just east of Dundonald to Newtownards, running along the Belfast Road, Newtownards. Prior to the dualling of the current A20 Kempstones Road, the C264 and the A20 were the other way round, and this is the way I found it on an old map. However, I actually spotted a sign for the C264 on the Belfast Road, so I realised they must have been swapped.
Original route grid reference: J440740 via J467736 to J482744
Current route grid reference: J440740 via J456753 to J482744
C265A55 Belfast Outer Ring, just south of the A55/A20 junction to A22 Dundonald. Runs along the King's Road and the Old Dundonald Road.
Grid reference: J387737 via J392734 to J423731
C269A23, about 1 mile south of the A55/A23 junction to A22 halfway between Dundonald and Comber. Spur from Gilnahirk to C265.
Grid reference: J381709 via J402716 to J442713 Spur from J392734 to J402716
C270A24 halfway between the A55/A24 junction and Carryduff, to Comber.
Grid reference: J360678 via J398688 and J453693 to J452695
C266A20 west of Newtownards to A22 halfway between Dundonald and Comber.
Grid reference: J467736 to J443712
C267Comber to Balloo, via Castle Espie, with spur to Lisbane. Alternative route, east of the A22.
Grid reference: J463685 via J498658 to J498608; Spur from J498658 to J482645
C268A22 south of Comber to Ballygowan.
Grid reference: J469674 to J435641
C367Ballygowan to A22 north of Balloo.
Grid reference: J432637 via J463627 to J495615
C271B6 east of Saintfield to Balloo.
Grid reference: J433596 via J446604 and J456604 to J498607
C272Ballygowan to Raffrey (B6 SE of Darragh Cross).
Grid reference: J431638 via J446604 and J453596 to J465571
C273NOT FOUND
C274C271 halfway between Saintfield and Balloo to A7 north of Crossgar.
Grid reference: J456604 via J453596 and J451580 to J444537
David McCormick
C262Dundonald to Helen's Bay via Craigantlet. Runs along Graham's Bridge Road, Church Road, Robb's Road, Dunlady Road, all in Dundonald, then multiplexes with the B170 for a short distance along Whinney Hill, then runs along the Ballymoney Road, multiplexes with the A2 for a short distance along the Belfast/Bangor Road, then runs along the Craigdarragh Road, Fort Road, Church Road, Bridge Road and Bridge Road South, all in Helen's Bay, before ending on the B20 Ballyrobert Road in Crawfordsburn. Whew!
Grid reference: J423731 via J423740, J438769, J443810 and J459829 to J462814
C263Holywood to C264 Killarn, west of Newtownards. Runs via Whinney Hill, Holywood and Craigantlet Road, Newtownards.
Grid reference: J412798 via J436770 to J456753
C264Alternative Route, A20 just east of Dundonald to Newtownards, running along the Belfast Road, Newtownards. Prior to the dualling of the current A20 Kempstones Road, the C264 and the A20 were the other way round, and this is the way I found it on an old map. However, I actually spotted a sign for the C264 on the Belfast Road, so I realised they must have been swapped.
Original route grid reference: J440740 via J467736 to J482744
Current route grid reference: J440740 via J456753 to J482744
C265A55 Belfast Outer Ring, just south of the A55/A20 junction to A22 Dundonald. Runs along the King's Road and the Old Dundonald Road.
Grid reference: J387737 via J392734 to J423731
C269A23, about 1 mile south of the A55/A23 junction to A22 halfway between Dundonald and Comber. Spur from Gilnahirk to C265.
Grid reference: J381709 via J402716 to J442713 Spur from J392734 to J402716
C270A24 halfway between the A55/A24 junction and Carryduff, to Comber.
Grid reference: J360678 via J398688 and J453693 to J452695
C266A20 west of Newtownards to A22 halfway between Dundonald and Comber.
Grid reference: J467736 to J443712
C267Comber to Balloo, via Castle Espie, with spur to Lisbane. Alternative route, east of the A22.
Grid reference: J463685 via J498658 to J498608; Spur from J498658 to J482645
C268A22 south of Comber to Ballygowan.
Grid reference: J469674 to J435641
C367Ballygowan to A22 north of Balloo.
Grid reference: J432637 via J463627 to J495615
C271B6 east of Saintfield to Balloo.
Grid reference: J433596 via J446604 and J456604 to J498607
C272Ballygowan to Raffrey (B6 SE of Darragh Cross).
Grid reference: J431638 via J446604 and J453596 to J465571
C273NOT FOUND
C274C271 halfway between Saintfield and Balloo to A7 north of Crossgar.
Grid reference: J456604 via J453596 and J451580 to J444537
David McCormick
Hi David,
Thon's a quare bit o' work ye're after doingthere, boy!
I had no idea about most of them. The C251 is actually signed as such on one signpost I've seen actually on the road on the N'ards side.
C368 is a strange one, it's a back route to my home (Groomsport), and includes a most horrific crossroads as 'SixRoad Ends' (which is, in a fit of logic fairly unusual in Ireland, actually where six roads end). F1 fans will be vaguely interested to know one of the turns there leads to Eddie Irvine's dad's garage.
As for the others, no comment! I've never seen them recorded on signs. You do see others, most notably perhaps 'Kells C45' in Antrim Town.
Of course, it all seems a terrible waste of time given the local tendency to go by road names or even landmarks - the A20 is never 'the A20', it's 'the road to Belfast', 'the road to Newtownards', 'Albertbridge', or 'y'know, on past Central Station a bit there...' For one well versed in driving abroad this tendency is intensely infuriating - we have road numbers (illogical though they are), we should use them!
My ideas for renumbering the entire main road system in NI appear elsewhere.
Regards,
Ian P.
Thon's a quare bit o' work ye're after doingthere, boy!
I had no idea about most of them. The C251 is actually signed as such on one signpost I've seen actually on the road on the N'ards side.
C368 is a strange one, it's a back route to my home (Groomsport), and includes a most horrific crossroads as 'SixRoad Ends' (which is, in a fit of logic fairly unusual in Ireland, actually where six roads end). F1 fans will be vaguely interested to know one of the turns there leads to Eddie Irvine's dad's garage.
As for the others, no comment! I've never seen them recorded on signs. You do see others, most notably perhaps 'Kells C45' in Antrim Town.
Of course, it all seems a terrible waste of time given the local tendency to go by road names or even landmarks - the A20 is never 'the A20', it's 'the road to Belfast', 'the road to Newtownards', 'Albertbridge', or 'y'know, on past Central Station a bit there...' For one well versed in driving abroad this tendency is intensely infuriating - we have road numbers (illogical though they are), we should use them!
My ideas for renumbering the entire main road system in NI appear elsewhere.
Regards,
Ian P.
-------------------------
Ian P. (IJP1)
Ian P. (IJP1)
Paul: <<A regular member here, Chris5156, maintains a page of C-Roads, sightings of which are pretty rare due to the lack of public documentation of their existence. Given the reams of stuff you're posting, I think he'll have a hard time catching up (this is all good btw).>>
Jesus H Corbett, you aren't joking!
I'm tempted to wriggle out using the loophole that my site is Chris's British Road Directory!
Otherwise, I think it's probably worth tabulating them on their own page, since they're more known about and signposted in NI.
Can I clear up this point: are they or aren't they supposed to be signed in NI? I was under the impression (from Ian P's comments on Richard Green's site) that they were signposted like any other road.
Chris
Jesus H Corbett, you aren't joking!
I'm tempted to wriggle out using the loophole that my site is Chris's British Road Directory!
Otherwise, I think it's probably worth tabulating them on their own page, since they're more known about and signposted in NI.
Can I clear up this point: are they or aren't they supposed to be signed in NI? I was under the impression (from Ian P's comments on Richard Green's site) that they were signposted like any other road.
Chris
Chris
Roads.org.uk
Roads.org.uk
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dmccormick
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- Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2002 15:23
- Location: Northern Ireland
Chris, you've got mail - I sent you one before I read your reply!
For the most part, no, C-roads are not signposted in Northern Ireland. There are a few isolated signs, but that's it. They are used in legislation, however.
The reason why I started with Co. Down is because it's my local area - I know the Six Road Ends well, and apparently the DRD are going to significantly alter the junction in order to make it safe.
David McCormick
For the most part, no, C-roads are not signposted in Northern Ireland. There are a few isolated signs, but that's it. They are used in legislation, however.
The reason why I started with Co. Down is because it's my local area - I know the Six Road Ends well, and apparently the DRD are going to significantly alter the junction in order to make it safe.
David McCormick
You're obviously fairly close by then, David, since I'm only 3 miles from Six Road Ends. Yes I understand the DRD is due to make the junction safer - we'll see when it actually happens!
The local Area Plan came out yesterday actually, which particularly called for huge improvements around Newtownards to make way for thousands of new homes.
And I second that point - like I say, I've seen 'C251' and 'C45', but not many more. In GB, C-roads *are* signed in Newcastle upon Tyne.
Regards,
Ian P.
The local Area Plan came out yesterday actually, which particularly called for huge improvements around Newtownards to make way for thousands of new homes.
And I second that point - like I say, I've seen 'C251' and 'C45', but not many more. In GB, C-roads *are* signed in Newcastle upon Tyne.
Regards,
Ian P.
-------------------------
Ian P. (IJP1)
Ian P. (IJP1)
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dmccormick
- Member
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2002 15:23
- Location: Northern Ireland
Last batch for tonight: C275-283, plus C366.
C275Crossgar to Derryboye (B6 halfway between Darragh Cross and Killyleagh)
Grid reference: J458523 to J478563
C276Shrigley to A22
Grid reference: J518538 to J520548
C277Derryboye (B6 halfway between Darragh Cross and Killyleagh) to A7 halfway between Killyleagh and Downpatrick
Grid reference: J478563 via J482525 to J495490
C278Crossgar to A24 just west of Loughinisland
Grid reference: J453522 via J444486 and J428459 to J408446
C279B7 halfway between Ballynahinch and Crossgar to Carson Park (A7 halfway between Saintfield and Crossgar)
Grid reference: J413531 via J415554 to J424564
C280A7 just south of the A7/B2 junction to A25 Quoile (about 1 mile NE of Downpatrick)
Grid reference: J472473 via J488465 to J496464
C281Downpatrick to A25 east of Raholp
Grid reference: J486447 via J515464 to J542482
C366B1 Downpatrick to Ballyhornan
Grid reference: J495442 via J523446, J559428 and J585419 to J593418
C282C366 Ballyalton to C283 Ballyculter
Grid reference: J523446 to J572473
C283A25 north of Ballyculter to A2 north of Killough
Grid reference: J573480 via J572473, J559428 and J542384 to J540376
David McCormick
C275Crossgar to Derryboye (B6 halfway between Darragh Cross and Killyleagh)
Grid reference: J458523 to J478563
C276Shrigley to A22
Grid reference: J518538 to J520548
C277Derryboye (B6 halfway between Darragh Cross and Killyleagh) to A7 halfway between Killyleagh and Downpatrick
Grid reference: J478563 via J482525 to J495490
C278Crossgar to A24 just west of Loughinisland
Grid reference: J453522 via J444486 and J428459 to J408446
C279B7 halfway between Ballynahinch and Crossgar to Carson Park (A7 halfway between Saintfield and Crossgar)
Grid reference: J413531 via J415554 to J424564
C280A7 just south of the A7/B2 junction to A25 Quoile (about 1 mile NE of Downpatrick)
Grid reference: J472473 via J488465 to J496464
C281Downpatrick to A25 east of Raholp
Grid reference: J486447 via J515464 to J542482
C366B1 Downpatrick to Ballyhornan
Grid reference: J495442 via J523446, J559428 and J585419 to J593418
C282C366 Ballyalton to C283 Ballyculter
Grid reference: J523446 to J572473
C283A25 north of Ballyculter to A2 north of Killough
Grid reference: J573480 via J572473, J559428 and J542384 to J540376
David McCormick
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dmccormick
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- Location: Northern Ireland
Smaller batch, C284-288, which more or less completes everything in Co. Down east of the A24.
C284C283 south of Bishops Court to Minerstown (halfway between Ballykinler and Killough on the A2)
Grid reference: J557420 via J538412, J532396 and J518389 to J490362
C285C284 (halfway between the B1 and the C283) to C288 (north of the A25)
Grid reference: J538412 via J526415, J506408, J504410, J486405, J466423 and J467425 to J439434
C286B176 just south of Downpatrick to Minerstown (halfway between Ballykinler and Killough on the A2)
Grid reference: J491430 via J486405 to J479366
C287A2 just east of Ballykinler to A25 east of Clough. Multiplexes with A2 for a short distance north of Ballykinler.
Grid reference: J447365 via J435365, J426391 and J425397 to J431412
C288A24 Drumaness to A2 east of Ballykinler.
Grid reference: J392492 via J396486, J428459, J439434, J445415, J446414 and J458398 to J452364
David McCormick
C284C283 south of Bishops Court to Minerstown (halfway between Ballykinler and Killough on the A2)
Grid reference: J557420 via J538412, J532396 and J518389 to J490362
C285C284 (halfway between the B1 and the C283) to C288 (north of the A25)
Grid reference: J538412 via J526415, J506408, J504410, J486405, J466423 and J467425 to J439434
C286B176 just south of Downpatrick to Minerstown (halfway between Ballykinler and Killough on the A2)
Grid reference: J491430 via J486405 to J479366
C287A2 just east of Ballykinler to A25 east of Clough. Multiplexes with A2 for a short distance north of Ballykinler.
Grid reference: J447365 via J435365, J426391 and J425397 to J431412
C288A24 Drumaness to A2 east of Ballykinler.
Grid reference: J392492 via J396486, J428459, J439434, J445415, J446414 and J458398 to J452364
David McCormick