East Leeds Orbital Route

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stu531
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East Leeds Orbital Route

Post by stu531 »

The following link contains a map to Thorpe Park, which is a business park to the east of Leeds by the M1 (J46).

Notice the East Leeds Orbital Route section on here:

http://www.thorpeparkleeds.com/image/lo ... ap_big.gif

Now I'm aware Leeds CC are making some decisions, at some time soon, about the Outer Ring (A6120) but I wasn't aware that there were considerations about another route..?

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Charley_17/7
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Post by Charley_17/7 »

Had a search on http://www.leeds.gov.uk. Didn't find anything, other than:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?K1A621F3B

which is a list of documents used in the UDP Inquiry.

Looking at the UDP in closer detail, there appears to be a post-2011 housing proposal known as "Phase 2 Eastern Edge" which is roughly in the same area. The area is 215ha, extending from the edge of Manston, to the west of the A58 at Wetherby Rd, and include Grimes Dyke (Supertram terminus?) and Red Hall. It would include housing, employment, green space and ancillary uses.

Leeds City Council will

1) prepare a development framework for the site

2) assess the need for an orbital relief road, hopefully funded by the development

3) provide appropriate highway infrastructure incorporating public transport (supertram/busway)

etc.

I believe the road assessment (number 2) was done October 2003, by their consultants Pell Frischmann.

I quote from the UDP:

"New highway infrastructure will be required at an appropriate level based upon an assessment of the need for an orbital relief road which would not only serve the development but offer an alternative to the A6120 Ring Road and could relieve the main built up area from congestion. The costs involved with a new orbital relief road will be borne by the developer."

It can't be April 1st, can it?? :?

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Re: East Leeds Orbital Route

Post by Chris5156 »

stu531 wrote:The following link contains a map to Thorpe Park, which is a business park to the east of Leeds by the M1 (J46).

Notice the East Leeds Orbital Route section on here:

http://www.thorpeparkleeds.com/image/lo ... ap_big.gif

Now I'm aware Leeds CC are making some decisions, at some time soon, about the Outer Ring (A6120) but I wasn't aware that there were considerations about another route..?
Yes, this is on the drawing board. You might be aware of the A6120 Outer Ring Road Consultation that the Council did last year? Basically they've been handed the ring road back from the Highways Agency and they're working out what to do with it. The results are still to be announced, but basically if they choose the high funding option they'll build this and a new link road to the airport.

I've never heard this name for it though - everything I've seen called it the Cross Gates and Seacroft Bypass!
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Post by stu531 »

I'd assumed from the map on the Thorpe Park development that the East Leeds Orbital is some sort of idea for an outer-outer ring road - something along the lines of your A648 maybe Chris?

Hopefully LCC may be waking up and smelling the coffee about the need for some kind of big improvement to the roads to the north of the city?

The quote that Charley found from the UDP inquiry is very, very interesting!
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Post by Chris5156 »

stu531 wrote:I'd assumed from the map on the Thorpe Park development that the East Leeds Orbital is some sort of idea for an outer-outer ring road - something along the lines of your A648 maybe Chris?

Hopefully LCC may be waking up and smelling the coffee about the need for some kind of big improvement to the roads to the north of the city?

The quote that Charley found from the UDP inquiry is very, very interesting!
Don't get your hopes up - this is the only bit they're considering. I'm surprised it ends that far up the A64 - I understood that it would lead more directly onto the existing A6120. But then it's only a location map for a business park, it's hardly the blueprints...

Depending on the outcome of the Ring Road Study, we'll see one of three things:

High funding: dualling the remaining S2 sections of ring road, junction improvements (probably at-grade, but GSJs not ruled out), Crossgates and Seacroft Bypass, Airport link road (S2), track and train upgrades for Leeds-Harrogate line.
Medium funding: some junction improvements, some pedestrian/cycle/equestrian priority measures, bus lanes etc. Possibly airport link road, some funding for Leeds-Harrogate line.
Low funding: Reduction of entire ring road to S2 or D1 by use of 24hr bus lanes. Pedestrian/cycle/equestrian priority measures everywhere. Other 'capacity management' measures for ring road. No bypass or airport link road. Not a lot of funding for rail line.

Seems a no-brainer to me - the low funding option would be worse than a do-nothing approach. I'm not sure why the Leeds-Harrogate rail line is included in all of this, but if it gets some improvements then it can only be good. I understand it'll go as far as realigning some track, new rolling stock, station improvements, maybe even a new station or two. Should be good.
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Post by stu531 »

Funnily enough I used the Harrogate-Leeds line last week. Between Horsforth and Leeds the train is a joke - far too full. Leeds is odd in that it doesn't have more stations nearer the centre - I'm surprised one was never built somewhere near the Corn Exchange/Bus Station area.

Still, this is a roads forum!

Leeds is going bananas at the minute - it's going to have Skyscrapers soon, yet there's hardly an infrastructure to cope with it; it's painful travelling in from any direction at the minute without improvements.

I'd hope the A6120 was at least dualled all the way from Lawnswood to the M1 - and even better as far as Dawson's Corner.
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Post by nrturner »

Hopefully an upgrade to the Leeds-Harrogate railway line will see some kind of proper railway station for Leeds-Bradford Airport. Though even if one was built right next to the entrance to the tunnel which the line passes through around the airport, it would still be a mile away from the terminal building, and only a few miles from Horsforth Station.

A better road out there would be very welcome though. Currently all Leeds and Bradford traffic has to use the A658 through Rawdon which is totally inadequate (last September I helped to pick up international students coming to Bradford from the airport so I know the roads well).

Actually pretty much the whole of that road from Pannal to Bradford is wholly inadequate, but that bit is one of the worst bits.
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Post by Jam35 »

nrturner wrote:Hopefully an upgrade to the Leeds-Harrogate railway line will see some kind of proper railway station for Leeds-Bradford Airport. Though even if one was built right next to the entrance to the tunnel which the line passes through around the airport, it would still be a mile away from the terminal building, and only a few miles from Horsforth Station.
The best thing would probably be a cable hauled shuttle train from existing stations (like they have at BHX). This could operate Horsforth (for Leeds) - Leeds Bradford Airport - Guiseley (for Bradford), and most importantly could deal with the gradients round there (there's not a tunnel for nothing you know!).
A better road out there would be very welcome though. Currently all Leeds and Bradford traffic has to use the A658 through Rawdon which is totally inadequate (last September I helped to pick up international students coming to Bradford from the airport so I know the roads well).
Most of the transport infrastructure in Leeds is substandard. There needs to be a co-ordinated scheme of road and rail enhancements throughout the West Riding.
Actually pretty much the whole of that road from Pannal to Bradford is wholly inadequate, but that bit is one of the worst bits.
And the A660 from the A6120 to, errrmmm, the City Centre Loop.
stu531 wrote:Funnily enough I used the Harrogate-Leeds line last week. Between Horsforth and Leeds the train is a joke - far too full. Leeds is odd in that it doesn't have more stations nearer the centre - I'm surprised one was never built somewhere near the Corn Exchange/Bus Station area.
What would be a really, really good idea would be to double the frequency on that bit by re-opening the line to Ilkley via Otley (and then have alternate trains to Harrogate/York and Ilkley), but I'll shut up now, because this is getting very OT.
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Post by stu531 »

There was talk of a new station where the A6120 meets the Harrogate line near West Park.

As for the airport, I think the real problems stem from the fact that it's not in a great location in the first place. A much better site would have been somewhere near Lofthouse - somewhere closer to the motorway system. 'If the mountain won't come to Mohammed...'

There must be some 'spare area' like old mining land which would work better than the existing site! The footprint of Leeds Bradford airport isn't so big...
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Post by Chris5156 »

stu531 wrote:There was talk of a new station where the A6120 meets the Harrogate line near West Park.

As for the airport, I think the real problems stem from the fact that it's not in a great location in the first place. A much better site would have been somewhere near Lofthouse - somewhere closer to the motorway system. 'If the mountain won't come to Mohammed...'

There must be some 'spare area' like old mining land which would work better than the existing site! The footprint of Leeds Bradford airport isn't so big...
That's because the Council won't grant planning permission for it to build outside its historic boundary. The airport wants to grow much larger, but the Council repeatedly say no because there's not the infrastructure to cope with it.

And whose fault is that? :roll:
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Post by Roadtripper_Ian »

So the council won't let LBX expand because of a lack of infrastruction which IT has failed to provide....?

Sounds about right.
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Post by stu531 »

Crazy innit. But I'm surprised that the initiative hasn't been taken by one of the other councils in the area, eg Wakefield. I know that Birstall Retail Park was built where it is (not just because of the motorway system) since it's in Kirkless rather than Leeds.

Leeds Council, despite managing some parts of the city well, don't do other things so good do they? They are notoriously anti-car for one thing.
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Post by Paul »

Is the East Leeds Orbital anyhting to do with the Pontefract Lane spine road being built to connect to the 'empty' junction on the M1? Or am I talking about the East Leeds Distributor? :?
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Post by Paul »

stu531 wrote:Leeds Council, despite managing some parts of the city well, don't do other things so good do they? They are notoriously anti-car for one thing.
They're not that bad: an inner ring road with motorway regulations that connects directly into a multi-storey car park should get some sort of award! If you want anti-car, try Oxford, Cambridge, Edinburgh, or Durham! :evil:
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Post by A1Wetherby »

Yes, there should be better roads to the airport.
You would think the council would encourage its growth, all the jobs it would bring.
Some kind of orbital motorway/expressway from the M1 at Garforth to the Airport might be a bit lavish, but at the very least, the ring road should be dualled, with GSJs where possible.
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Post by A1Wetherby »

PS I loved flying to Dublin for a quid with Ryannair when i visited last year
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Post by Steven »

Is there any other airport of similar size with as bad road connections as Leeds-Bradford?
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Post by Jam35 »

Steven wrote:Is there any other airport of similar size with as bad road connections as Leeds-Bradford?
The only comparably bad one I can think of is Cardiff Wales Airport (as opposed to Cardiff, Pennsylvania, presumably).
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Post by Chris5156 »

Paul wrote:Is the East Leeds Orbital anyhting to do with the Pontefract Lane spine road being built to connect to the 'empty' junction on the M1? Or am I talking about the East Leeds Distributor? :?
No - that's the East Leeds Link Road.
They're not that bad: an inner ring road with motorway regulations that connects directly into a multi-storey car park should get some sort of award! If you want anti-car, try Oxford, Cambridge, Edinburgh, or Durham!
And also bear in mind that for the last ten years they have - on the quiet - been extending the inner ring road to meet the M621 in the east. Currently it's dualled but full of at-grade signalised junctions, but the next phase (number 7?) will be replacing one of those with a grade separated junction. That's not too anti-car!

The trouble with the north of Leeds is where the hell do you start? Really you need to commit to building 20-odd miles of GSJ'd D2 and that's not going to happen. Let's hope that if the East Leeds Orbital gets the go-ahead there'll be plans to build another section, and another, and another...
Jam35 wrote:The only comparably bad one I can think of is Cardiff Wales Airport (as opposed to Cardiff, Pennsylvania, presumably).
From the map, that one doesn't look ideal, but it's not bad. It's just a lot of roundabouts and S2 until the A4232.

To reach Leeds/Bradford from the motorway network requires a trek through a built-up area no matter which way you go. Most traffic probably fights its way through Leeds somehow; the best route is via the outer ring road but that's the best of a bad bunch.
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Post by Haydn1971 »

Steven wrote:Is there any other airport of similar size with as bad road connections as Leeds-Bradford?
For the moment - Doncaster, Finingley, Vulcan, Sheffield, Robin Hood, Yorkshire, Lincolnshire and Nottinghamshire Airport or what ever it's called today :)

Hopefully things will change soon with a direct link off the M18
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