Priority distances when does it come into play

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silverfoxcc
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Priority distances when does it come into play

Post by silverfoxcc » Mon May 13, 2019 19:58

This question refers to the signs where there is a pinch point or narrowing of road
I think Dia 615 refers to 'giving way and Dia 811 refers to priority

The question is whilst 615 specifies a give way sign and distance from sign. There is no such advisory distance as to when the priority starts to apply
Is there an arbitary distance say 20/30/40 mtetrs from such sign ,or does it depend on the Whim of the local Authority and the camera operator if an offence has been committed by the driver at the 'give way sign'
This refers to several posts on Pepipoo and the Give Way sign at Salters Hill which is considered a bit of a honeypot for Lambeth
Due to the foreshortening of the camera it appears that the driver passing the sign has committed such an offence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1qnzMiOBbY

There seems to be a difference of opinion as to when the priority comes into effect. Lambeth claim it is at the junction and when the vehicle enters Salters Hill

If you wish to read what pepipoo has to say this is is the link

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=127158

But to get back to the original question?

When DOES the priority commence according to the law, or is it a suck it and see judgement.

It is worth reading the case as there a distances quoted

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Berk
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Re: Priority distances when does it come into play

Post by Berk » Mon May 13, 2019 22:55

Are councils actually setting up priority cameras now?? :shock:

They would’ve had a field day at Lolham level crossing, no-one could get it right (which is why it was made southbound only).

silverfoxcc
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Re: Priority distances when does it come into play

Post by silverfoxcc » Wed May 15, 2019 13:38

Yes

AS i said check out the thread on pepipoo it is a duesy

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Chris5156
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Re: Priority distances when does it come into play

Post by Chris5156 » Wed May 15, 2019 20:00

My totally non-legal interpretation is that “giving way” - in this case, meaning ceding priority to oncoming traffic - means that you should not cause oncoming traffic to have to change speed or course. If you cause an oncoming vehicle to slow down or adjust its course by setting off over the give way line, you’ve failed to give way, in my book. The same applies to junctions. Don’t pull out unless you can join the major road without disrupting the flow.

This instance - Salter’s Hill - is tricky because once an oncoming vehicle is committed to coming up Salter’s Hill towards you it is already too late to set off without causing them to brake. You would effectively need to go only when no vehicle can be seen approaching the junction in the distance.

FWIW, in the first video you posted, it seems to me entirely uncontroversial that the silver/grey VW car is in the wrong.
Berk wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 22:55
Are councils actually setting up priority cameras now?? :shock:
For at least a decade now LB Lambeth has had a fleet of Smart cars, with pole-mounted cameras on the roof, used for enforcement of places like this. I’ve also seen them enforcing zebra crossings and school zig-zags.

Reading
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Re: Priority distances when does it come into play

Post by Reading » Thu May 16, 2019 09:28

In my completely non legal opinion I would think it is not about distance per se it is you are illegal as soon as you cause the vehicle coming from the priority direction to have to alter it's speed or course

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Re: Priority distances when does it come into play

Post by PhilC » Thu May 16, 2019 18:02

Diagram 615 is the sign requiring drivers to give way to oncoming traffic. If there is a give way line, as in this case, that is the point at which traffic must give way. Diagram 811 is merely a sign giving information, it doesn't indicate the start of a priority zone.

As other posters have said, the relevant point is whether a driver has failed to give way, i.e. caused another vehicle to alter speed or direction. It is the speed of the opposing vehicle that is relevant (even if is speeding) and at what point it will reach the the restriction, not how far up the road it is.

I don't know what would happen if an opposing driver voluntarily forwent his priority and allowed another vehicle to go before him. Also, if two motorcycles met, presumably both could proceed at the same time as neither would cause the other to alter speed or direction.

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Chris5156
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Re: Priority distances when does it come into play

Post by Chris5156 » Fri May 17, 2019 10:32

PhilC wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 18:02
Diagram 811 is merely a sign giving information, it doesn't indicate the start of a priority zone.
Agreed - the idea that the blue rectangular “priority over oncoming vehicles” marks a point of any significance is a complete red herring. It’s just information.

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