Highways England multilingual roadworks signs

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A303Chris
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Highways England multilingual roadworks signs

Post by A303Chris » Thu Jul 11, 2019 09:23

I personally think this is a good idea, an automatic number plate reader observes a foreign vehicle then flashes the information message in that countries language.

The only problem I could see is if the sign is constantly changing languages on the sign, can't see a problem on the M6 trial may be an issue on the M25
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Re: Highways England multilingual roadworks signs

Post by rhyds » Thu Jul 11, 2019 09:31

About 10 years ago I was travelling in Hungary and the VMSes on the Hungarian motorway network would flash through Hungarian, I think Romanian (or another local language) and English.

Personally I think its a great idea, especially if the ANPR can pick up and recognise foreign plates accurately, my only worry would be with Romanian plates which can have a format like X 12 XYZ similar to our pre 2001 plates.
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Re: Highways England multilingual roadworks signs

Post by PhilC » Thu Jul 11, 2019 09:40

Also what would happen if there were two foreign lorries of different nationalities side by side? Which language would be displayed? At one time it was not unusual for the driver to be from a different country from the vehicle, I don't know whether this is still an issue.

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Re: Highways England multilingual roadworks signs

Post by Conekicker » Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:25

One can but hope DfT have authorised these legends. It's always been their position that traffic signs in England are mono-lingual in English only. Such legends are non-prescribed, so to display them without authorisation is unlawful.

The Traffic Signs Manual Chapter 1 reminds highway authorities:

The use of non-prescribed signs on public highways without authorisation by the national authority might be deemed unlawful, with authorities using them acting beyond their powers. The erection of an unauthorised sign in the highway is an obstruction and the possible consequences of erecting or permitting the erection of obstructions can be severe. Those responsible could lay themselves open to a claim for damages, for example if an obstruction is the cause of an accident or an injury in a collision, or if it adversely affects a property adjacent to the road by blocking light or impairing visual amenity. Furthermore, the use of unlawful traffic signs might compromise enforcement of statutory provisions and be detrimental to road safety.

One might muse that someone at HE has had a "good idea" and decided to run with it before checking what the legal position is. If that is the case, they would be well advised to stop doing this immediately and never do it again.

Edit: The next time someone has a "good idea" regarding traffic signing, they would be wise to ask those with sufficient knowledge on the subject as to just how "good" it actually is. Because, all too often, "good" is the last thing their idea is.
Last edited by Conekicker on Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:14, edited 1 time in total.
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RichardA35
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Re: Highways England multilingual roadworks signs

Post by RichardA35 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:31

https://www.dft.gov.uk/traffic-auths/ seems to be about 6 weeks behind the times...

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Re: Highways England multilingual roadworks signs

Post by Conekicker » Thu Jul 11, 2019 14:36

RichardA35 wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:31
https://www.dft.gov.uk/traffic-auths/ seems to be about 6 weeks behind the times...
You don't seriously expect those legends to ever be authorised do you?
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Re: Highways England multilingual roadworks signs

Post by Bryn666 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 15:02

Surely better to just adopt a European standard "road closed" sign... like, I don't know, Dia. 617 which is used virtually everywhere else at roadworks.
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RichardA35
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Re: Highways England multilingual roadworks signs

Post by RichardA35 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 15:20

Conekicker wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 14:36
RichardA35 wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:31
https://www.dft.gov.uk/traffic-auths/ seems to be about 6 weeks behind the times...
You don't seriously expect those legends to ever be authorised do you?
Well I had my doubts about the "speed limits to manage congestion" but there they are.
Maybe the technology or signal setting team or whoever is running this show has some backbone?

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Re: Highways England multilingual roadworks signs

Post by rhyds » Thu Jul 11, 2019 15:27

Bryn666 wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 15:02
Surely better to just adopt a European standard "road closed" sign... like, I don't know, Dia. 617 which is used virtually everywhere else at roadworks.
If its straightforward info like that then fair enough, but it does make sense to translate the wordier messages that HE use, especially if they are of actual importance.
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Re: Highways England multilingual roadworks signs

Post by nowster » Thu Jul 11, 2019 16:13

Bryn666 wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 15:02
Surely better to just adopt a European standard "road closed" sign... like, I don't know, Dia. 617 which is used virtually everywhere else at roadworks.
You mean the empty red circle "No Vehicles" sign? It must be ages since I saw that last.

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Re: Highways England multilingual roadworks signs

Post by Conekicker » Thu Jul 11, 2019 16:19

Bryn666 wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 15:02
Surely better to just adopt a European standard "road closed" sign... like, I don't know, Dia. 617 which is used virtually everywhere else at roadworks.
That would be ideal, except it's such a rare sign in the UK that most UK drivers don't know what it means. Not that that is any excuse of course. If you could use it with a distance plate it might work, but that's not permitted.

The bigger problem is getting correctly designed signs for diversions, it's something this country is particularly bad at. All down to no one giving a flying one of course. T'was ever thus. Get those signs right and Johnny Foreigner might not be confused (or claim confusion when he's caught somewhere he shouldn't be).
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Re: Highways England multilingual roadworks signs

Post by Bomag » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:02

Conekicker wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 14:36
RichardA35 wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:31
https://www.dft.gov.uk/traffic-auths/ seems to be about 6 weeks behind the times...
You don't seriously expect those legends to ever be authorised do you?
Not given the rather pithy comments I have received.

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Re: Highways England multilingual roadworks signs

Post by rhyds » Fri Jul 12, 2019 13:06

Conekicker wrote:
Bryn666 wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 15:02
Surely better to just adopt a European standard "road closed" sign... like, I don't know, Dia. 617 which is used virtually everywhere else at roadworks.
That would be ideal, except it's such a rare sign in the UK that most UK drivers don't know what it means. Not that that is any excuse of course. If you could use it with a distance plate it might work, but that's not permitted.

The bigger problem is getting correctly designed signs for diversions, it's something this country is particularly bad at. All down to no one giving a flying one of course. T'was ever thus. Get those signs right and Johnny Foreigner might not be confused (or claim confusion when he's caught somewhere he shouldn't be).
That reminds me of this absolute belter that I spotted a few years back....[IMG]//uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201907 ... 4a42a8.jpg[/IMG]
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Re: Highways England multilingual roadworks signs

Post by Chris Bertram » Fri Jul 12, 2019 13:16

rhyds wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 13:06
Conekicker wrote:
Bryn666 wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 15:02
Surely better to just adopt a European standard "road closed" sign... like, I don't know, Dia. 617 which is used virtually everywhere else at roadworks.
That would be ideal, except it's such a rare sign in the UK that most UK drivers don't know what it means. Not that that is any excuse of course. If you could use it with a distance plate it might work, but that's not permitted.

The bigger problem is getting correctly designed signs for diversions, it's something this country is particularly bad at. All down to no one giving a flying one of course. T'was ever thus. Get those signs right and Johnny Foreigner might not be confused (or claim confusion when he's caught somewhere he shouldn't be).
That reminds me of this absolute belter that I spotted a few years back....
I'd be in two minds about taking that seriously :)
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Re: Highways England multilingual roadworks signs

Post by rhyds » Fri Jul 12, 2019 13:19

Chris Bertram wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 13:16
rhyds wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 13:06
Conekicker wrote:That would be ideal, except it's such a rare sign in the UK that most UK drivers don't know what it means. Not that that is any excuse of course. If you could use it with a distance plate it might work, but that's not permitted.

The bigger problem is getting correctly designed signs for diversions, it's something this country is particularly bad at. All down to no one giving a flying one of course. T'was ever thus. Get those signs right and Johnny Foreigner might not be confused (or claim confusion when he's caught somewhere he shouldn't be).
That reminds me of this absolute belter that I spotted a few years back....
I'd be in two minds about taking that seriously :)
Ironically that sign was totally accurate! You could go either way, but one was down a gravel track (shorter) and the other via tarmac (longer + narrower)
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Re: Highways England multilingual roadworks signs

Post by Conekicker » Fri Jul 12, 2019 19:21

Bomag wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:02
Conekicker wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 14:36
RichardA35 wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:31
https://www.dft.gov.uk/traffic-auths/ seems to be about 6 weeks behind the times...
You don't seriously expect those legends to ever be authorised do you?
Not given the rather pithy comments I have received.

A small bit of knowlege and no competence is a very dangerous thing.
Pithy comments, how very unexpected. :roll:

Delete "a very dangerous thing" and replace with "standard practice these days". :evil:
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Re: Highways England multilingual roadworks signs

Post by Glen » Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:45

rhyds wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 13:06
That reminds me of this absolute belter that I spotted a few years back....
The plate to cover one of the arrow heads has fallen off.

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Re: Highways England multilingual roadworks signs

Post by WHBM » Sun Jul 14, 2019 14:20

Doing it on numberplates does not recognise the number of drivers from "cheaper" countries. A level crossing accident in East Anglia a few years ago had signage that the official report said was designed on the basis that drivers had taken the UK HGV test, but the (UK registered) HGV driver was Lithuanian, fully legal but had not done the training/test.

Many German/Austrian, in particular, HGVs are now driven by those from further east who speak little German.

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Re: Highways England multilingual roadworks signs

Post by RichardA35 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:36

So getting back to the subject, rather than revealing our prejudices, the non prescribed sign authorisations list has been updated to last Friday with no entry for these messages.

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Re: Highways England multilingual roadworks signs

Post by rhyds » Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:45

Glen wrote:
rhyds wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 13:06
That reminds me of this absolute belter that I spotted a few years back....
The plate to cover one of the arrow heads has fallen off.
There was no evidence of one there and, as I said, both routes were equally valid!
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