Botched Roadsigns

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ellandback
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Re: Botched Roadsigns

Post by ellandback » Fri Apr 30, 2021 14:58

Conekicker wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 22:09
Double botch

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.97557 ... 8192?hl=en
If you follow the image onwards from here, there doesn't seem to be a 'start of motorway' :mway: sign (or, indeed, any sign) where the slip road back onto the A167(M) leaves the roundabout. The older images suggest there used to be a patched sign (presumably ex-A6127(M)?) until 2009 or so, but nothing since.

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the cheesecake man
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Re: Botched Roadsigns

Post by the cheesecake man » Fri Apr 30, 2021 16:33

A bit too early for chopsticks? :thumbsdown: The motorway is 2 miles away.

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Re: Botched Roadsigns

Post by Conekicker » Fri Apr 30, 2021 19:04

ellandback wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 14:58
Conekicker wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 22:09
Double botch

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.97557 ... 8192?hl=en
If you follow the image onwards from here, there doesn't seem to be a 'start of motorway' :mway: sign (or, indeed, any sign) where the slip road back onto the A167(M) leaves the roundabout. The older images suggest there used to be a patched sign (presumably ex-A6127(M)?) until 2009 or so, but nothing since.
Yes, having driven around Newcastle a bit over the years, they do seem particularly bad at maintaining signs. Lots of very old and tatty stuff kicking around.
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Re: Botched Roadsigns

Post by Bfivethousand » Fri May 07, 2021 17:08

One of those signs I've passed dozens upon dozens of times but only today actually noticed the botch:

A444 Fenny Drayton

It looks OK, sure, the only problem here is that the left turn is some 30 metres or so prior to the right turn. There's an awful lot of turning traffic here at peak times and the junction has a pretty poor safety record including at least one fatal a couple of years ago. The map symbol on the sign indicates a junction with a very different dynamic to the one that is on the ground.
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Re: Botched Roadsigns

Post by jervi » Fri May 07, 2021 22:25

Before I make myself look like an idiot reporting this. Are 30 repeaters allowed in lit areas when used a temp speed limit during road works?
https://youtu.be/jrcNWSiPvf4
Even though I passed through here many times since the works started, I only just noticed they were repeaters in a lit area today.

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Re: Botched Roadsigns

Post by Conekicker » Sat May 08, 2021 13:31

jervi wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 22:25
Before I make myself look like an idiot reporting this. Are 30 repeaters allowed in lit areas when used a temp speed limit during road works?
https://youtu.be/jrcNWSiPvf4
Even though I passed through here many times since the works started, I only just noticed they were repeaters in a lit area today.
Simple answer - no they aren't. TSRGD 2016, Schedule 10, General Direction 2 refers:

2. The sign must not be placed as a repeater sign where the road is subject to a maximum speed limit of 30 mph and has a system of carriageway lighting.

Not that it stops clueless TM firms or their clients deciding they are "needed". If the limit is 50 and there's a genuine need to reduce the mandatory speed limit for the works, then 40 may well be appropriate, as repeaters can be signed and thus the message made clearer to drivers.

The alternative would be a 30 with no repeaters and average speed cameras. Such kit tends to give excellent levels of compliance.
Patience is not a virtue - it's a concept invented by the dozy beggars who are unable to think quickly enough.

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Re: Botched Roadsigns

Post by jervi » Sat May 08, 2021 15:36

Conekicker wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 13:31
jervi wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 22:25
Before I make myself look like an idiot reporting this. Are 30 repeaters allowed in lit areas when used a temp speed limit during road works?
https://youtu.be/jrcNWSiPvf4
Even though I passed through here many times since the works started, I only just noticed they were repeaters in a lit area today.
Simple answer - no they aren't. TSRGD 2016, Schedule 10, General Direction 2 refers:

2. The sign must not be placed as a repeater sign where the road is subject to a maximum speed limit of 30 mph and has a system of carriageway lighting.

Not that it stops clueless TM firms or their clients deciding they are "needed". If the limit is 50 and there's a genuine need to reduce the mandatory speed limit for the works, then 40 may well be appropriate, as repeaters can be signed and thus the message made clearer to drivers.

The alternative would be a 30 with no repeaters and average speed cameras. Such kit tends to give excellent levels of compliance.
Okay cheers, I thought I would just check in case there was some special exemption for road works.

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Re: Botched Roadsigns

Post by Conekicker » Sat May 08, 2021 16:42

jervi wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 15:36
Conekicker wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 13:31
jervi wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 22:25
Before I make myself look like an idiot reporting this. Are 30 repeaters allowed in lit areas when used a temp speed limit during road works?
https://youtu.be/jrcNWSiPvf4
Even though I passed through here many times since the works started, I only just noticed they were repeaters in a lit area today.
Simple answer - no they aren't. TSRGD 2016, Schedule 10, General Direction 2 refers:

2. The sign must not be placed as a repeater sign where the road is subject to a maximum speed limit of 30 mph and has a system of carriageway lighting.

Not that it stops clueless TM firms or their clients deciding they are "needed". If the limit is 50 and there's a genuine need to reduce the mandatory speed limit for the works, then 40 may well be appropriate, as repeaters can be signed and thus the message made clearer to drivers.

The alternative would be a 30 with no repeaters and average speed cameras. Such kit tends to give excellent levels of compliance.
Okay cheers, I thought I would just check in case there was some special exemption for road works.
Given that the site is at a roundabout, applying a temporary speed limit is pretty pointless.
Patience is not a virtue - it's a concept invented by the dozy beggars who are unable to think quickly enough.

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Re: Botched Roadsigns

Post by Skermington » Sat May 08, 2021 19:11


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Re: Botched Roadsigns

Post by Skermington » Sun May 09, 2021 08:38

Not sure if a botch, but there is definitely a better way of signing this.

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Re: Botched Roadsigns

Post by ForestChav » Sun May 09, 2021 12:48

Skermington wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 08:38
Not sure if a botch, but there is definitely a better way of signing this.
All these footways who get speeding fines...
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Re: Botched Roadsigns

Post by SteelCamel » Sun May 09, 2021 17:58

I've been past this sign at Longman Roundabout, Inverness many times - but only after thinking about it realised it's not right. Is that actually an enforceable restriction? There's no "bus lane" sign or blue circle "buses only". Not only that, but it appears to allow turning left at the roundabout rather than using the avoiding lane, and possibly doing a full circuit - it's only going straight on or right that is restricted to buses.

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Re: Botched Roadsigns

Post by jervi » Sun May 09, 2021 18:48

SteelCamel wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 17:58
I've been past this sign at Longman Roundabout, Inverness many times - but only after thinking about it realised it's not right. Is that actually an enforceable restriction? There's no "bus lane" sign or blue circle "buses only". Not only that, but it appears to allow turning left at the roundabout rather than using the avoiding lane, and possibly doing a full circuit - it's only going straight on or right that is restricted to buses.
That is not enforceable, unless Scotland has some special rules I don't know about.

The ADS is incorrect since it ought to use bus only sign rather than a written instruction. Also on the ADS I wouldn't put the roundabout on it, since the attempted traffic restriction is before the roundabout, not on the exits.
At the start of the bus lane (or the diverge) there must be an upright sign to make the lane/carriageway enforceable. There is also a missing keep left on the approach to the roundabout too.

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Re: Botched Roadsigns

Post by ellandback » Mon May 10, 2021 12:48

SteelCamel wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 17:58
I've been past this sign at Longman Roundabout, Inverness many times - but only after thinking about it realised it's not right. Is that actually an enforceable restriction? There's no "bus lane" sign or blue circle "buses only". Not only that, but it appears to allow turning left at the roundabout rather than using the avoiding lane, and possibly doing a full circuit - it's only going straight on or right that is restricted to buses.
Not being familiar with the area, I'm curious to understand the rationale for these restrictions, given that the exits marked "buses only" can apparently be accessed by non-buses if approached from other directions?

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Re: Botched Roadsigns

Post by SteelCamel » Mon May 10, 2021 13:20

ellandback wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 12:48
SteelCamel wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 17:58
I've been past this sign at Longman Roundabout, Inverness many times - but only after thinking about it realised it's not right. Is that actually an enforceable restriction? There's no "bus lane" sign or blue circle "buses only". Not only that, but it appears to allow turning left at the roundabout rather than using the avoiding lane, and possibly doing a full circuit - it's only going straight on or right that is restricted to buses.
Not being familiar with the area, I'm curious to understand the rationale for these restrictions, given that the exits marked "buses only" can apparently be accessed by non-buses if approached from other directions?
The restriction is supposed to be that non-buses may not enter the roundabout from Stadium Road. It was put in when the lights were added to the roundabout, to avoid a light phase being needed for traffic exiting Stadium Road. As only buses are allowed, there will be very little traffic, and a give way line is enough. Everyone else is forced to turn left, bypassing the roundabout (and the lights).

Traffic going north can either turn round at Raigmore Interchange or go via Harbour Road to approach the roundabout from the other side. To be honest it's a bit of a bodge, as it forces a lot of the traffic from the Longman and the docks onto the already busy A82. The Council has ambitions to develop the old landfill site, but that won't work with the junction as it is. The whole thing is supposed to be replaced with a grade-separated junction at some point - as it should have been from the start, but it doesn't seem that anyone anticipated the amount of commuting over the Kessock Bridge.

Oh, and just to add to the strangeness - there's no scheduled bus service on Stadium Road.

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Re: Botched Roadsigns

Post by Stevie D » Mon May 10, 2021 19:22

SteelCamel wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 17:58
I've been past this sign at Longman Roundabout, Inverness many times - but only after thinking about it realised it's not right. Is that actually an enforceable restriction? There's no "bus lane" sign or blue circle "buses only". Not only that, but it appears to allow turning left at the roundabout rather than using the avoiding lane, and possibly doing a full circuit - it's only going straight on or right that is restricted to buses.
It's botched, and would appear to be unenforceable.
The exits that it marks are not "buses only", they are roads open to all traffic. The only bit that is "buses only" is the connection from that road onto the roundabout, but there are no vertical signs to indicate that and I'm pretty sure that a bus lane that is only marked with paint on the road surface and no vertical signs is just decoration with no legal standing.

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Re: Botched Roadsigns

Post by traffic-light-man » Mon May 10, 2021 19:32

SteelCamel wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 13:20
It was put in when the lights were added to the roundabout, to avoid a light phase being needed for traffic exiting Stadium Road. As only buses are allowed, there will be very little traffic, and a give way line is enough. Everyone else is forced to turn left, bypassing the roundabout (and the lights).
Perhaps this loop puts a call in to the signals on the roundabout to hold/extend an all-red to give any buses a gap to get out on to the roundabout.

Also, as a bonus, this appears to be an internally illuminated shared footway sign, which has to be rare, and amusingly is now lit from an external sign light.
Simon :driving:

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Re: Botched Roadsigns

Post by JohnnyMo » Thu May 13, 2021 21:49

Saw this for traffic approaching the Channel Tunnel. While the sign is still correct it is a bit pointless.
Johnny Mo

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Re: Botched Roadsigns

Post by jervi » Thu May 13, 2021 23:34

traffic-light-man wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 19:32
Also, as a bonus, this appears to be an internally illuminated shared footway sign, which has to be rare, and amusingly is now lit from an external sign light.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.01106 ... 6?hl=en-GB
This one appears to of been installed in about 2008/9,
Ignore the amazing wrong sign in front of it.

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Re: Botched Roadsigns

Post by Bfivethousand » Fri May 14, 2021 12:19

Smart motorway cock-up

Good luck to you in finding a sign saying "Coventry (S)" unless you fancy reversing back up to junction 4.

I assume the designer meant "follow A444 (S)" although even that only emerges halfway along the exit slip road.
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