Botched Traffic Signals

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OliverH
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by OliverH » Tue Jul 13, 2021 15:57

traffic-light-man wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 00:14
There's definitely something missing here... :roll:
seen a few of these around but not neer me.

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jervi
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by jervi » Sat Jul 17, 2021 13:05

Had this one a few days ago, I've reported it to B&H so hopefully it will be fixed in due course.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ALrICq ... omasJarvis

Can't see the right turn filter lights from the ASL, and the LLCS on the left side doesn't specify it is for left&ahead movements only.

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traffic-light-man
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by traffic-light-man » Sat Jul 17, 2021 18:16

jervi wrote:
Sat Jul 17, 2021 13:05
Had this one a few days ago, I've reported it to B&H so hopefully it will be fixed in due course.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ALrICq ... omasJarvis

Can't see the right turn filter lights from the ASL, and the LLCS on the left side doesn't specify it is for left&ahead movements only.
Did you also mention the diagram 606 box sign to the council? Of course, you don't need to see the signals for ahead and left because everything must turn right :roll:

Regarding the LLCS, we really need to introduce arrows on these (and the full size counterpart). The fact you can't use arrows with them just promotes the incorrect use of box signs to signalise different directions, which is a regular design failure that needs quashing rather than promoting. Perhaps LLCS arrows need (some) more special authorisation submissions!
Simon :driving:

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jervi
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by jervi » Sat Jul 17, 2021 19:45

traffic-light-man wrote:
Sat Jul 17, 2021 18:16
jervi wrote:
Sat Jul 17, 2021 13:05
Had this one a few days ago, I've reported it to B&H so hopefully it will be fixed in due course.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ALrICq ... omasJarvis

Can't see the right turn filter lights from the ASL, and the LLCS on the left side doesn't specify it is for left&ahead movements only.
Did you also mention the diagram 606 box sign to the council? Of course, you don't need to see the signals for ahead and left because everything must turn right :roll:

Regarding the LLCS, we really need to introduce arrows on these (and the full size counterpart). The fact you can't use arrows with them just promotes the incorrect use of box signs to signalise different directions, which is a regular design failure that needs quashing rather than promoting. Perhaps LLCS arrows need (some) more special authorisation submissions!
No, I didn't mention the 606 box signs on the main signal heads. I'm not really clued up traffic signal standards. I'll go and have a proper look at the installation and see what other issues there are, as I'd expect similar things in the opposite direction.
The installation is quite new, I'd guess at about July/October last year as I remember I pulled up to the ASL there and the temporary traffic lights during the works was at the stop line so couldn't see any signal.

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L.J.D
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by L.J.D » Tue Jul 20, 2021 21:31

These come across as botchy because delivery and worker vehicles can turn left and I've seen them doing so in the past I don't see any reason why they can't. So they should either be balls or ahead and a left arrow. Also that NRT box looks absolutely horrid installed on the left hand side it just doesn't look right at all it should be on the right hand side.

Jonathan24
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by Jonathan24 » Tue Jul 20, 2021 22:57

L.J.D wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 21:31
These come across as botchy because delivery and worker vehicles can turn left and I've seen them doing so in the past I don't see any reason why they can't. So they should either be balls or ahead and a left arrow. Also that NRT box looks absolutely horrid installed on the left hand side it just doesn't look right at all it should be on the right hand side.
Is that left turn not a private entrance though, which isn't part of the signalised junction?

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L.J.D
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by L.J.D » Tue Jul 20, 2021 23:52

Jonathan24 wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 22:57
L.J.D wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 21:31
These come across as botchy because delivery and worker vehicles can turn left and I've seen them doing so in the past I don't see any reason why they can't. So they should either be balls or ahead and a left arrow. Also that NRT box looks absolutely horrid installed on the left hand side it just doesn't look right at all it should be on the right hand side.
Is that left turn not a private entrance though, which isn't part of the signalised junction?
There's plenty of examples on a thread on here where private roads and access has been included into signal junctions. So it's odd that isn't.

Excellent example here.

OliverH
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by OliverH » Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:49

L.J.D wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 23:52
Jonathan24 wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 22:57
L.J.D wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 21:31
These come across as botchy because delivery and worker vehicles can turn left and I've seen them doing so in the past I don't see any reason why they can't. So they should either be balls or ahead and a left arrow. Also that NRT box looks absolutely horrid installed on the left hand side it just doesn't look right at all it should be on the right hand side.
Is that left turn not a private entrance though, which isn't part of the signalised junction?
There's plenty of examples on a thread on here where private roads and access has been included into signal junctions. So it's odd that isn't.

Excellent example here.
and here

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L.J.D
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by L.J.D » Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:29

L.J.D wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 21:31
These come across as botchy because delivery and worker vehicles can turn left and I've seen them doing so in the past I don't see any reason why they can't. So they should either be balls or ahead and a left arrow. Also that NRT box looks absolutely horrid installed on the left hand side it just doesn't look right at all it should be on the right hand side.
All that is about to be changed next year though when Ings Road gets a major overhaul and that part is going to be made one way towards the camera under the bridge. That Halfords junction has been tweaked about with 4 times in the last 30 or so years. Wakefield Council can't seem to make up their minds with it. So let's see what happens there after they compete the works. One of the main reasons it's happening this time is due to traffic on Ings Road bound for Doncaster Road skipping the queues and illegally turning into Halfords and going through the no entry signs in the carpark and coming out the wrong way under the bridge. So they are permanently closing the entrance to Halfords under the bridge to stop it.

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L.J.D
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by L.J.D » Mon Jul 26, 2021 17:51

Whilst not a botch as such I thought putting blinds on red lights was discouraged. I understand why they are there but surely the long tubes would of been a better option than restricting the red lights visibility.

ReissOmari
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by ReissOmari » Wed Jul 28, 2021 02:11

L.J.D wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 17:51
Whilst not a botch as such I thought putting blinds on red lights was discouraged. I understand why they are there but surely the long tubes would of been a better option than restricting the red lights visibility.
These are exactly the same.
ReissOmari..

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MotorwayGuy
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by MotorwayGuy » Wed Aug 04, 2021 21:18

I've always found this junction strange. It's basically a pedestrian crossing between a staggered junction, but the markings are confusing (for example in the opposite direction it has a "turn right" arrow suggesting you have to continue right onto the A205 and not turn left).

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jervi
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by jervi » Tue Aug 17, 2021 23:35

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.76622 ... 384!8i8192

Very unique pedestrian crossing.
First of all the pedestrian crossing is marked as a triangle, not a rectangle, so you can cross between all three sides like a scramble.
Second of all, its a pedestrian crossing and only a pedestrian crossing. Both of the vehicular approaches are on the same phase and end up turning into practically the same lane. There used to be two lanes and a parking lane on the left. However 2 years ago it changed to be a bus lane on the left, traffic lane in the centre and parking lane (in marked bays w/buildouts) on the right. Strangely the "GET INTO LANE" sign still shows both lanes for all traffic
and Third of all, taking the right is very confusing if you don't know the layout.

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Gareth
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by Gareth » Wed Aug 18, 2021 06:54

And a pelican crossing, no less. Truly bizarre.

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jervi
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by jervi » Sat Aug 21, 2021 13:08

https://youtu.be/9MeToxTpoco?t=62
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.47530 ... 384!8i8192
These traffic lights here are horrid, couldn't believe it at first!

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traffic-light-man
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by traffic-light-man » Mon Aug 23, 2021 00:44

Looks like that could do with some work on the config, or change it to a closely associated secondary. The signal heads here have just been replaced so I do wonder if they've done a controller change and caught it in the new config as well.

Although I fully appreciate the issues with early cut off situations, I do still think that ultimately the onus is squarely on a driver if they make a turn across the path of an oncoming vehicle irrespective of the signals.
Simon :driving:

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Stevie D
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by Stevie D » Mon Aug 23, 2021 18:01

traffic-light-man wrote:
Mon Aug 23, 2021 00:44
Although I fully appreciate the issues with early cut off situations, I do still think that ultimately the onus is squarely on a driver if they make a turn across the path of an oncoming vehicle irrespective of the signals.
Yes, in terms of strict liability, if a driver turns across the path of an oncoming vehicle without having a green arrow then they are to blame ... but better to design the junction so that drivers are not easily misled into thinking it is safe to do that!

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Big L
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by Big L » Fri Aug 27, 2021 16:25

Anyone tell me what these lights are for?
Make poetry history.

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L.J.D
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by L.J.D » Fri Aug 27, 2021 18:20

Big L wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 16:25
Anyone tell me what these lights are for?
I'm pretty sure they go red if a vehicle is speeding towards them. They are an anti speeding tool. Pretty ridiculous as well.

TS
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by TS » Sat Aug 28, 2021 11:47

These traffic signals were tinkered with about a year ago. It seems they are now in this permanent state of one set covered apart from the green arrow, to give an ordinary left filter. I can't see what the benefit will be of actually having the two sets of lights for what will amount to exactly the same thing, or when they will get round to it as it's been like this for over a year.

Anyway, the worse part about this junction is that there is a full TEN SECOND all-red phase at certain times. It is infuriating, especially in low traffic levels.

Apart from the delay, the sequence is more or less as you would expect:
Green for north-south and south-north.
Red for north-south while south-north has a green right arrow, as does west-south a left green.
Northbound goes red and AFTER 10 SECONDS westbound gets green for right turn.
ALL RED FOR 10 seconds
repeat.

Can anyone think of any reason for the 10-second rather than the standard instantaneous or short delay in the sequence?

It also has a button-triggered pedestrian phase, where both crossings are green at the same time, after the westbound goes red. I haven't been in a position to see whether the 10-second red is shortened after a pedestrian phase. But the pedestrian phase is definitely not part of the 10-second phase, as no green man appears during it.

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