Botched Roadsigns

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TS
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Re: Botched Roadsigns

Post by TS » Tue Sep 14, 2021 16:20

OliverH wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:26
OliverH wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:24
I'll just read this sign and assume that I can go either side and reach the same destination. Well, it doesn't seem to be. If only this sign meant that you could go either side of the island instead of the same but then to get to the same destination. If you want more, then I can find an image that I have of one.
yep here too: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.74329 ... 8192?hl=en
Yes, I posted one a few posts up.

But what is the correct face to use on a bollard like that? The 'pass either side' sign feels appropriate because you can pass either side of it, and obviously the keep left arrow is wrong. Should it just be a blank white circle?

PS I also featured in the Rare Signs thread, a 'pass either side' sign which was actually correct! I don't think I'd ever seen one before that was correctly used!

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Re: Botched Roadsigns

Post by Big L » Tue Sep 14, 2021 19:14

TS wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 16:20
...
But what is the correct face to use on a bollard like that? The 'pass either side' sign feels appropriate because you can pass either side of it, and obviously the keep left arrow is wrong. Should it just be a blank white circle?
Believe so, yes.
TS wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 16:20
...
PS I also featured in the Rare Signs thread, a 'pass either side' sign which was actually correct! I don't think I'd ever seen one before that was correctly used!
I would estimate at least 99%* of these signs are deployed incorrectly. There are some correct ones in Chelmsford either side of the same bridge. Brief D1+1+1+1 anyone?

*Note: ±1% uncertainly.
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Re: Botched Roadsigns

Post by Dougman » Wed Sep 15, 2021 09:00

TS wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 16:20
OliverH wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:26
OliverH wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:24
I'll just read this sign and assume that I can go either side and reach the same destination. Well, it doesn't seem to be. If only this sign meant that you could go either side of the island instead of the same but then to get to the same destination. If you want more, then I can find an image that I have of one.
yep here too: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.74329 ... 8192?hl=en
Yes, I posted one a few posts up.

But what is the correct face to use on a bollard like that? The 'pass either side' sign feels appropriate because you can pass either side of it, and obviously the keep left arrow is wrong. Should it just be a blank white circle?
<snip>
How about pass left AND right at the same time?
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Re: Botched Roadsigns

Post by OliverH » Wed Sep 15, 2021 09:10

Dougman wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 09:00
TS wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 16:20
OliverH wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:26


yep here too: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.74329 ... 8192?hl=en
Yes, I posted one a few posts up.

But what is the correct face to use on a bollard like that? The 'pass either side' sign feels appropriate because you can pass either side of it, and obviously, the keep left arrow is wrong. Should it just be a blank white circle?
<snip>
How about pass left AND right at the same time?
I've seen one that is correct but I think they want you to use the filter at the roundabout and not the roundabout. So it is correct in saying that you can use both sides to get to the same destination but that some might say it is a botch and some might say it's not.

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Re: Botched Roadsigns

Post by Klepsydra » Wed Sep 15, 2021 19:44

Has anyone seen a thicker stroke width than this? (Hackney Marshes)
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5494568 ... 384!8i8192
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Re: Botched Roadsigns

Post by Bryn666 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 22:14

Klepsydra wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 19:44
Has anyone seen a thicker stroke width than this? (Hackney Marshes)
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5494568 ... 384!8i8192
I hate everything about that sign. Someone tried to be clever and failed massively.
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Re: Botched Roadsigns

Post by Patrick Harper » Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:21

'Superstore', 'Foodstore', 'Hypermarket', and 'Supermarket' aren't acceptable destinations but they seem to appear far more often than the proper term 'Shoppers', with or without the parking symbol. Seems to be something that happens so often that it's virtually never questioned, so much that I used it years ago before realising it was an issue.
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the cheesecake man
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Re: Botched Roadsigns

Post by the cheesecake man » Thu Sep 16, 2021 13:51

Klepsydra wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 19:44
Has anyone seen a thicker stroke width than this? (Hackney Marshes)
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5494568 ... 384!8i8192
Yep (Bawtry)
Patrick Harper wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:21
'Superstore', 'Foodstore', 'Hypermarket', and 'Supermarket' aren't acceptable destinations but they seem to appear far more often than the proper term 'Shoppers', with or without the parking symbol. Seems to be something that happens so often that it's virtually never questioned, so much that I used it years ago before realising it was an issue.
I'm not convinced. "Superstore" is clear: following the sign will take me to the specific large shop. What does "shoppers" mean? There are some people shopping up here? All shoppers should go this way, whichever shop they're looking for? There is a car park intended for shoppers but no actual shops? There are some shops but nowhere to park?

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Re: Botched Roadsigns

Post by Patrick Harper » Thu Sep 16, 2021 14:17

the cheesecake man wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 13:51
I'm not convinced. "Superstore" is clear: following the sign will take me to the specific large shop. What does "shoppers" mean? There are some people shopping up here? All shoppers should go this way, whichever shop they're looking for? There is a car park intended for shoppers but no actual shops? There are some shops but nowhere to park?
On reflection I guess such names would come under the TSRGD's catch-all 'generic description of a facility'. The only other piece of documentation I can find related to this is Highways England's National Highways' CG 153 transport note.
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Re: Botched Roadsigns

Post by aj444 » Thu Sep 16, 2021 22:01

This sign designer must have had a yellow surplus I think,
https://www.google.com/maps/@52.7494558 ... 312!8i6656

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Re: Botched Roadsigns

Post by Chris5156 » Thu Sep 16, 2021 22:40

aj444 wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 22:01
This sign designer must have had a yellow surplus I think,
https://www.google.com/maps/@52.7494558 ... 312!8i6656
And a shortage of mini roundabout symbols.

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Re: Botched Roadsigns

Post by Rob590 » Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:11

Speaking of overuse of yellow, an odd one is this at the entrance to the B1365 from the sliproad off the A174 eastbound, signing drivers towards Whitby and Scarborough.

The B1365 and then the unclassified Stainton Way (past the little-known Middlesbrough Cathedral) provides an alternative route around the slowest S2 part of the A172 Dixon's Bank, the signed route to Whitby, and on a busy summer's weekend the traffic can build up on the A172. So I guess the aim of the yellow sign is to reassure drivers- many of whom will be tourists - who are following SatNavs that they are on a route to the Yorkshire Coast? To be honest at that point, as drivers have left the A174, it may as well be signed properly!

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Re: Botched Roadsigns

Post by the cheesecake man » Fri Sep 17, 2021 13:13

Patrick Harper wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 14:17
On reflection I guess such names would come under the TSRGD's catch-all 'generic description of a facility'. The only other piece of documentation I can find related to this is Highways England's National Highways' CG 153 transport note.
How about "Asda"?

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Re: Botched Roadsigns

Post by ais523 » Fri Sep 17, 2021 19:12

ais523 wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 06:25
Which way to Whittlesey?

You actually have to take the exit, but the sign makes it look a lot like the exit is just for the distribution centre and Whittlesey is actually straight on.

Oh, and you only have a few seconds to work this out. This is the only ADS for the junction (when approaching from this direction), and it's placed after the 100yds count down marker, Not only is it the only ADS, it's also the only sign altogether; there are no signs at the diverge, and nothing else serving the purpose that a diverge or flag sign would normally serve. So if someone is trying to get to Whittlesey for the first time, they're very unlikely to realise that they've missed their exit.

I think this one's a lot more insidious than a typical botched roadsign because it isn't obviously wrong; there's nothing that makes you do a double-take and wonder what you're missing, it's just that there's more than one way to read it and the more obvious reading is wrong (especially as the sign placement is so terrible that it's hard to imagine that this is a junction between two primary routes).
So I discovered that the sign linked above isn't the only botch at the junction. Here's what the sign for the same junction looks like when you're coming back from Whittlesey. I count at least three clear botches ("The NORTH" miscapitalised, no parentheses around A1 and A1(M), and the less obvious problem that the A1 and A1(M) are the wrong way around on the sign!). Arguably a fourth in that the correct primary destination for the (primary) sign is Northampton, which isn't mentioned on the sign anywhere (and an implied fifth in that this is the only sign letting you know that you need to turn off here if you're aiming for the A1 – there's no flag sign and this sign doesn't look much like the ADS for a major junction). Not bad for such a small sign!

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Re: Botched Roadsigns

Post by OliverH » Fri Sep 17, 2021 19:51

ais523 wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 06:25
Which way to Whittlesey?

You actually have to take the exit, but the sign makes it look a lot like the exit is just for the distribution centre and Whittlesey is actually straight on.

Oh, and you only have a few seconds to work this out. This is the only ADS for the junction (when approaching from this direction), and it's placed after the 100yds count down marker, Not only is it the only ADS, it's also the only sign altogether; there are no signs at the diverge, and nothing else serving the purpose that a diverge or flag sign would normally serve. So if someone is trying to get to Whittlesey for the first time, they're very unlikely to realise that they've missed their exit.

I think this one's a lot more insidious than a typical botched roadsign because it isn't obviously wrong; there's nothing that makes you do a double-take and wonder what you're missing, it's just that there's more than one way to read it and the more obvious reading is wrong (especially as the sign placement is so terrible that it's hard to imagine that this is a junction between two primary routes).
in 2009 they didn't tell you at all how to get to Whittlesey

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Re: Botched Roadsigns

Post by Patrick Harper » Sat Sep 18, 2021 09:43

the cheesecake man wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 13:13
Patrick Harper wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 14:17
On reflection I guess such names would come under the TSRGD's catch-all 'generic description of a facility'. The only other piece of documentation I can find related to this is Highways England's National Highways' CG 153 transport note.
How about "Asda"?
That's definitely wrong, brands aren't permitted except for junction names.
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Re: Botched Roadsigns

Post by jervi » Sat Sep 18, 2021 15:31

Not sure if I posted this one before. But a new sign I reported to the highways department for being wrong has now been replaced with a correct version. Its now like I am the QC for Brighton & Hove CC even though I'm just a 22 year old with no qualifications at all in the field :laugh:
seven dial old.png
seven dial old.png (199.04 KiB) Viewed 484 times
Old sign
seven dial new.PNG
seven dial new.PNG (168.2 KiB) Viewed 484 times
new sign

It seems that no entry symbol has taken up much room, so no room left for the junction name to fit on the same size sign unfortunately.

The issues with the sign that I reported were:
1. Ahead is no entry.
2. Second arm is in a primary panel, when just the number should be in a primary patch
3. Gatwick has no plane
4. Motor vehicular access (except busses & taxis) to Brighton station is via the second arm, not the third. Third exit should be marked as "City Centre"
Correction, taxis now also use the second arm, not third.

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Re: Botched Roadsigns

Post by Stevie D » Sun Sep 19, 2021 15:55

TS wrote:
Sun Sep 12, 2021 19:26
A contradictory pair here in Eastleigh, both of which are wrong, I think, but certainly one is!
https://goo.gl/maps/hffomSf5dEEdqM177

The 'Keep left' sign on the left-hand bollard must surely be wrong, as northbound traffic can pass either side of it.
But I think the 'Pass either side' sign is also technically wrong, because although you can pass either side, you don't reach the same destination from either lane because the right-hand lane is for right turners only.
Where an island separates traffic travelling in the same direction, but diverging to different destinations, any bollard on it should just have a yellow front with a blank circular panel instead of keep left/right/either side arrows.

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Re: Botched Roadsigns

Post by Big L » Tue Sep 21, 2021 21:53

So, yellow borders are to highlight particular hazards or to try to improve non-compliance? the size of that border...
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Re: Botched Roadsigns

Post by Kevin Roads » Wed Sep 22, 2021 07:35

Big L wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 21:53
So, yellow borders are to highlight particular hazards or to try to improve non-compliance? the size of that border...
That looks awful. Who thought that was a good idea?

If the roundabout is perceived to be a hazard, maybe because it's hidden by the bend, then surely the sign itself (without horrendous yellow surround) gives sufficient warning of the hazard (although most drivers would consider the roundabout to be a normal road feature and just deal with it), as well as showing directions. If it's considered that the sign isn't readable, for whatever reason, then make it bigger. Yes, this last idea probably costs more money....

Non-compliance? Maybe there has been a spate of vehicles just driving straight over the roundabout.

I wonder what rubbish reason would be given to justify that eyesore?

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