Botched Roadsigns

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jnty
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Re: Botched Roadsigns

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Chris5156 wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 15:49
jnty wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 14:14
Chris Bertram wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 13:47 Hmm, I'm not sure. This kind of signage is used where pedestrians crossing a main road would be an unexpected hazard, typically where a public footpath in a rural area crosses a high-speed road. The ordinary "pedestrian crossing the road" sign is used mainly in urban areas where warning is needed of a zebra or light-controlled crossing ahead.
Yep - the "Pedestrians Crossing" plate for an "other danger" sign is prescribed in TSRGD and used all over the network, particularly on those dodgy dual carriageway crossings that are dotted around.
Bryn had some suggested changes to fix exactly this problem on his blog a few years ago here.
No disagreements there. I wonder if the feeling is that a danger sign draws the attention more, whereas a pedestrians sign is just absorbed by the 'urban sign clutter filter' in drivers' brains regardless of whether it's in an unusual location.
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the cheesecake man
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Re: Botched Roadsigns

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Chris Bertram wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 13:47 ]Hmm, I'm not sure. This kind of signage is used where pedestrians crossing a main road would be an unexpected hazard, typically where a public footpath in a rural area crosses a high-speed road. The ordinary "pedestrian crossing the road" sign is used mainly in urban areas where warning is needed of a zebra or light-controlled crossing ahead.
In cases such as Wentbridge that seems to be true.

But this example is a golf course on the edge of Buxton so IMHO is closer to the urban situation than the A1.
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Re: Botched Roadsigns

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the cheesecake man wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 20:32
Chris Bertram wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 13:47 ]Hmm, I'm not sure. This kind of signage is used where pedestrians crossing a main road would be an unexpected hazard, typically where a public footpath in a rural area crosses a high-speed road. The ordinary "pedestrian crossing the road" sign is used mainly in urban areas where warning is needed of a zebra or light-controlled crossing ahead.
In cases such as Wentbridge that seems to be true.

But this example is a golf course on the edge of Buxton so IMHO is closer to the urban situation than the A1.
It’s still not a formal pedestrian crossing - unless there are white stripes and Belisha beacons, or traffic lights and red/green man signals, the only sign you can use is a “!” warning triangle with a plate underneath.
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the cheesecake man
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Re: Botched Roadsigns

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M1 (south) who needs capital letters?
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Re: Botched Roadsigns

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Re: Botched Roadsigns

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An unenforceable 30 limit, how nice.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.56543 ... 8192?hl=en
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Chris Bertram
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Re: Botched Roadsigns

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Conekicker wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 15:57 An unenforceable 30 limit, how nice.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.56543 ... 8192?hl=en
Unenforceable why?
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Re: Botched Roadsigns

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I presume the black border around the yellow backing board
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Re: Botched Roadsigns

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Nathan_A_RF wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 02:00 I presume the black border around the yellow backing board
Yep. Schoolboy error on the part of whoever designed that one.
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Re: Botched Roadsigns

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You could do an experiment to see how unenforceable it is. You’d have a hard job in court arguing that the meaning isn’t obvious because of a black border.
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Re: Botched Roadsigns

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Big L wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 09:04 You could do an experiment to see how unenforceable it is. You’d have a hard job in court arguing that the meaning isn’t obvious because of a black border.
What does TSRGD have to say on that? The courts cannot ignore legislation.
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jnty
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Re: Botched Roadsigns

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Conekicker wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 09:06
Big L wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 09:04 You could do an experiment to see how unenforceable it is. You’d have a hard job in court arguing that the meaning isn’t obvious because of a black border.
What does TSRGD have to say on that? The courts cannot ignore legislation.
It is debated a lot but you'd presumably be in a pretty weak position arguing that a slightly out of compliance 30 sign made you miss all the lampposts.
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Nathan_A_RF
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Re: Botched Roadsigns

Post by Nathan_A_RF »

It's not the fact it isn't visible, it's the fact the sign is unlawful
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Re: Botched Roadsigns

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https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.17682 ... 384!8i8192

Weird & Inconsistent way to shorten "North" & "South"
jnty
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Re: Botched Roadsigns

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Nathan_A_RF wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 14:40 It's not the fact it isn't visible, it's the fact the sign is unlawful
The lamppost frequency is what (usually) defines a 30 limit according to the Road Traffic Act, not the sign at the start. The legal ambiguity is how the requirements of the TSRGD interact with this. I can see that one interpretation of the law might say that you should have been doing 30 given the lampposts anyway, with the slightly dodgy 30 signs leaving no room for doubt. But you could also say that a 30 limit must be signed to the letter of the TSRGD to be remotely enforceable. I imagine a lot would hinge on the detailed context of any case.
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Re: Botched Roadsigns

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jervi wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 15:12 https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.17682 ... 384!8i8192

Weird & Inconsistent way to shorten "North" & "South"
And the incorrect hatching the in ghost island between the opposing lanes.
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the cheesecake man
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Re: Botched Roadsigns

Post by the cheesecake man »

Is it me or is this P unusually large?
OliverH
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Re: Botched Roadsigns

Post by OliverH »

here's not how to change some temporary speed limit signs into no entry signs: https://www.google.com/maps/@54.0836914 ... 312!8i6656
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Re: Botched Roadsigns

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These no entry signs don't look right.
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Re: Botched Roadsigns

Post by Conekicker »

Not botched roadsigns, well, not directly. Drove through some resurfacing roadworks today on the A26 in Northern Ireland here:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.02410 ... 384!8i8192

The northbound carriageway was closed, (god knows where they were diverting southbound traffic), with the northbound running on the southbound carriageway. Which would have been fine except guess which signs they'd forgotten to cover over?

At the roundabout further back, in the verge opposite where the blue car is, there was a ROAD AHEAD CLOSED sign and a tiny DIVERSION arrow sign, pointing vaguely right, which lots of traffic, self included, ignored. As it turned out the road wasn't closed to northbound traffic, presumably explaining traffic ignoring the signs. So why install the signs if they are lying to drivers?

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.01634 ... 384!8i8192

Personally I would have coned off the offside lane on the exit from the roundabout and put the signs there, in a sort of gateway effect, but only if the road actually was closed obviously.
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