Puffin crossings - a blunder?

[scynthius726]

Something I've noticed twice recently is crossings that get "stuck".

On Dura Street next to the chippy for a few months earlier this year the lights were in a constant cycle for a few weeks, as soon as the crossing phase was done the wait light was back on.
Of course this happened even when no one was standing waiting to cross...
This was also great for getting out of Eliza Street!
https://goo.gl/maps/6ziWipBscNQ2


Now I've spotted the one at the Morgan is now doing exactly the same for the last couple of weeks!
https://goo.gl/maps/Vk2TjEAh8zs

What did the council say when you reported it?

[Nwallace]

Something I've noticed twice recently is crossings that get "stuck".

On Dura Street next to the chippy for a few months earlier this year the lights were in a constant cycle for a few weeks, as soon as the crossing phase was done the wait light was back on.
Of course this happened even when no one was standing waiting to cross...
This was also great for getting out of Eliza Street!
https://goo.gl/maps/6ziWipBscNQ2


Now I've spotted the one at the Morgan is now doing exactly the same for the last couple of weeks!
https://goo.gl/maps/Vk2TjEAh8zs

What did the council say when you reported it?

Reported it?

[Brigham]

When Pelican crossings first appeared, we used to jam the button down with a lollipop stick!

[scynthius726]

Something I've noticed twice recently is crossings that get "stuck".

On Dura Street next to the chippy for a few months earlier this year the lights were in a constant cycle for a few weeks, as soon as the crossing phase was done the wait light was back on.
Of course this happened even when no one was standing waiting to cross...
This was also great for getting out of Eliza Street!
https://goo.gl/maps/6ziWipBscNQ2


Now I've spotted the one at the Morgan is now doing exactly the same for the last couple of weeks!
https://goo.gl/maps/Vk2TjEAh8zs

What did the council say when you reported it?

Reported it?

Yes, it's far more likely to get fixed if you report it to your local council than to us on here.

[Nwallace]

What did the council say when you reported it?

Reported it?

Yes, it's far more likely to get fixed if you report it to your local council than to us on here.

Meh.
And I've been taking advantage of it to get out of junctions easier so...

[Euan]

Aren't we the kind of people most likely to want to report a fault like that? I suppose if we don't report it then it will take a long while for somebody else to report it and have the problem fixed.

[Dougman]

Can't decide if nearside of farside is best? Why not both?

Apologies if this has been posted before, but there are a lot of pages on this thread!

[yen_powell]

That's a Toucan isn't it?

[traffic-light-man]

It is, but it should only have either nearside indicators or farside signal heads, not both.

On another note, is there a reason why nearside toucans have a red cycle, and farside don't?

I'm not sure it's something I've ever come across the answer to. I know some of the initial trial toucans had farside red cycles, but this was dropped when they went to full roll-out.

[nowster]

I suspect (from the number of people blindly crossing) that nearside indicators on busy city junctions are a bad move.

Case in point being around the junction of Piccadilly (London Road), Newton Street and Portland Street in Manchester. Waist-high nearsides which are not visible when moderate numbers of pedestrians are crossing, which leads to much conflict between the small amount of vehicular traffic and unaware pedestrians.

[traffic-light-man]

I suspect (from the number of people blindly crossing) that nearside indicators on busy city junctions are a bad move.

Case in point being around the junction of Piccadilly (London Road), Newton Street and Portland Street in Manchester. Waist-high nearsides which are not visible when moderate numbers of pedestrians are crossing, which leads to much conflict between the small amount of vehicular traffic and unaware pedestrians.

Very similar events in Liverpool, however unlike Manchester, Liverpool City Council is exclusively using nearsides for all installations. They seem to have backed down from the policy of placing double indicators on absolutely every installation now, though, which is a slight relief in clutter.

This one on the Strand is a prime example of a bad design, especially given the pedestrian phases are split across different stages. To top that up, the main crossing between LiverpoolOne and the splitter island on the Western arm is a toucan, with only puffins off the island in the other directions, leaving cyclists having to dismount part-way to cross the remainder of the junction.

The peds being ran on different stages is a theme on the James St junction as well, where you often see pedestrians walk out in to 4 lanes of traffic having missed the fact the crossings are split. The Southern arm being particularly prone given the central refuge area is quite notably narrow.

[nowster]

The peds being ran on different stages is a theme on the James St junction as well, where you often see pedestrians walk out in to 4 lanes of traffic having missed the fact the crossings are split. The Southern arm being particularly prone given the central refuge area is quite notably narrow.

That's an abysmal design, given that even the Highway Code states that a straight-across crossing (ie. no stagger) is to be treated as a single crossing, even if it has a central island.

[Dougman]

It is, but it should only have either nearside indicators or farside signal heads, not both.

On another note, is there a reason why nearside toucans have a red cycle, and farside don't?

I'm not sure it's something I've ever come across the answer to. I know some of the initial trial toucans had farside red cycles, but this was dropped when they went to full roll-out.

The standard for farside toucans is only to have a red man and green man + cycle.

[traffic-light-man]

It is, but it should only have either nearside indicators or farside signal heads, not both.

On another note, is there a reason why nearside toucans have a red cycle, and farside don't?

I'm not sure it's something I've ever come across the answer to. I know some of the initial trial toucans had farside red cycles, but this was dropped when they went to full roll-out.

The standard for farside toucans is only to have a red man and green man + cycle.

Yes, I'm fully aware of that, but I was questioning why it was felt necessary to have a red cycle to nearside indicators, or indeed for that matter to not have a red cycle on farside indicators.

[AndyB]

I think it was because of ambiguity in the farside indicator, which can be read as having the same effect on cyclists as a red ball, ie they must not cross when it is lit. Nearside indicators were never seen as anything other than advisory.

[traffic-light-man]

At the risk of treading in to 'International Roads' forum jurisdiction, I've been doing a bit of scouting around on the web and have discovered some developments that I don't think have been discussed on here yet.

It seems nearside indicators are gaining little bit more traction in The Netherlands and now Belgium too.

Last year, Den Bosch in The Netherlands and Bruges and Menen in Flanders, Belgium installed pedestrian crossing facilities with nearside indicators.

It looks like the new equipment for Den Bosch is a similar idea to the combination PBUs we have here in the UK, with particular attention paid to the inclusion of demand entered feedback and a tactile indication. They look slightly larger than a UK unit, as a result of the lantern itself being more aligned to the design of a low-level cycle signal, unsurprisingly!

Here's a page from Dutch signal provider Hoeflake Electrotechniek. Along with the specification, it gives a good background on the development too. Of course, it's written in Dutch, but Google Translate on Chrome was my friend!

Here's a PDF relating to the equipment. It seems to discuss elements of the UK Puffin and the Maastricht nearside signals (more on those below). Some good pictures of the equipment too!

BoschNS1.jpeg (3.83 KiB) Viewed 2098 times

The Belgian example appears to be less 'innovative', using standard equipment, however has a nearside pedestrian signal made using a 100mm signal with red/green pedestrian masks fitted. Reading what I can of the article (I had to do some searching to find one not behind a paywall), it appears one of the rationales in Belgium is that the motorist cannot see the pedestrian signals and make any assumptions. I don't seem to be able to find much more information on these, though.

Belgium article can be read here , again written in Dutch.

BelgiumNS1.jpg (15.13 KiB) Viewed 2098 times

With regards to the Maastricht nearside indicators I've referenced above, they're signals mounted above the push button similar to other nearside signals, but they have 180 degree lenses. I've been aware of nearside indicators in Maastricht for quite some time, but what surprised me was to learn that they were in fact introduced in the early 80s!

Here's a typical Maastricht site on GSV.

Maastricht1.jpeg (8.93 KiB) Viewed 2098 times

[traffic-light-man]

On an unrelated note, I've been resurrecting an old hard drive, and discovered these pictures I'd taken of the old signals at Liverpool Queen Square bus station, sadly long gone. I thought they might be of interest to some!