Botched Roadsigns
Moderator: Site Management Team
Re: Botched Roadsigns
I do not know if is technically botched, but trying to make sense in the two seconds as you approach it before reaching the roundabout is quite a challenge.
https://goo.gl/maps/ea9DJiAqeZ62
And although not a road sign, I always wonder about the lane markings on the A282 north of the Dartford tunnels. Surely this is botched?
https://goo.gl/maps/Rti9ajZcMe72
It does not even seem to be for when the bridge is closed, as southbound traffic moves over much later.
And this road sign is not botched, but there is no thread for wonderful road signs.
https://goo.gl/maps/2GmARx1cZTt
https://goo.gl/maps/ea9DJiAqeZ62
And although not a road sign, I always wonder about the lane markings on the A282 north of the Dartford tunnels. Surely this is botched?
https://goo.gl/maps/Rti9ajZcMe72
It does not even seem to be for when the bridge is closed, as southbound traffic moves over much later.
And this road sign is not botched, but there is no thread for wonderful road signs.
https://goo.gl/maps/2GmARx1cZTt
- Chris Bertram
- Member
- Posts: 15744
- Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 12:30
- Location: Birmingham, England
Re: Botched Roadsigns
I know that location, and can quite appreciate what it's trying to say, though one feels that there ought to be the regulation gap in the roundabout, at about 5 o'clock in the circle. Sudbury has a large gyratory system around its town centre, I think it takes about 10 minutes to do a complete circuit. This is at the SE corner, where traffic coming in from Great Cornard (I'm sure that should be a breed of bird) meets the circulation, and is more-or-less forced to head via the market place. The roundabout is there to enable traffic from the minor road on the left to turn right, and for traffic from the north to reach said minor road, while traffic already on the gyratory is given a cut-off that avoids the roundabout altogether.someone wrote: ↑Mon Oct 01, 2018 14:15 I do not know if is technically botched, but trying to make sense in the two seconds as you approach it before reaching the roundabout is quite a challenge.
https://goo.gl/maps/ea9DJiAqeZ62
The sign is clearly not new - a modern version would have a larger green patch to include Bury St Edmunds as well as the route number.
“The quality of any advice anybody has to offer has to be judged against the quality of life they actually lead.” - Douglas Adams.
Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
Re: Botched Roadsigns
Traffic using the right hand tunnel is being kept away from the J31 exit to prevent weaving, hence the markings. You can move to the right but not the left.someone wrote: ↑Mon Oct 01, 2018 14:15
And although not a road sign, I always wonder about the lane markings on the A282 north of the Dartford tunnels. Surely this is botched?
https://goo.gl/maps/Rti9ajZcMe72
It does not even seem to be for when the bridge is closed, as southbound traffic moves over much later.
It's not conventional, but presumably it was signed off as enforceable by the police.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: Botched Roadsigns
If that is the reason it only compounds the botch as there is no sign before the tunnels to say traffic for the A1306 needs to use the western one. Possibly there would also need to be a sign giving the alternative route for taller vehicles that must use the eastern tunnel.Bryn666 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 01, 2018 15:51Traffic using the right hand tunnel is being kept away from the J31 exit to prevent weaving, hence the markings. You can move to the right but not the left.someone wrote: ↑Mon Oct 01, 2018 14:15
And although not a road sign, I always wonder about the lane markings on the A282 north of the Dartford tunnels. Surely this is botched?
https://goo.gl/maps/Rti9ajZcMe72
It does not even seem to be for when the bridge is closed, as southbound traffic moves over much later.
It's not conventional, but presumably it was signed off as enforceable by the police.
But I do not see how it can be enforced when the TSRGD Regulation 26 explicitly only applies when "the marking has been so placed that, as viewed in the direction of travel of the vehicle, a continuous line is on the left of a broken line or of another continuous line" in order that they "be so driven as to keep the first-mentioned continuous line on the right hand or off side of the vehicle."
In a normal context traffic moving from lanes one and two can cross similar double lines to overtake then return back to the left. Presumably why the regulation states it as such, to avoid traffic being otherwise technically trapped in an oncoming lane. So the marking does not even prevent all traffic moving from the outside lanes leftwards into the inside ones, only half of the traffic. Which is very weird, and why I always wonder about it when I go that way as I cannot logically make sense of it.
Definitely a botch then.
As for weaving, I saw that Sudbury sign when I was going north from the B1508 to B1115. That journey creates a horrible weave because there is only about thirty yards between where the traffic from the roundabout (joining from the left) and bypassing section of road (joining from the right) come together and then split between the full gyratory (left of the split) or cutting the corner of it (the right of the split).
I would imagine most of the traffic coming from the right will leave the left, so will need to change lanes. But the right side of the split, which cuts the corner to avoid the full gyratory, is the signposted route to use to get to the A134, the direction with the no entry signs on the award diagram. So presumably most of the traffic taking it will have come via that roundabout.
Ideally that spit should be on the sign too to show the alternative route, and better warn traffic of the coming weave. Definitely not an easy layout to depict, but the long section of road bypassing the roundabout has no reason to be there, it seems just a way of lazily only needing one no entry sign and is what makes it confusing. The sign gives more prominence to where you cannot go and does not warn about the impending weave.
Personally I would make the line coming out for the second roundabout exit continue an upwards straight line, with the A131 and (A134) north as the direction. Before that I would show a road coming out for the (A134) south and B1115, and just a stub with a no entry sign for the bypassing section of road. On the roundabout the third exit just a stub with a no entry sign, and the usual broken gap after that. It would need to be taller, but would tell you all you need to know. Left turn for a local street, a split immediately after the second exit, and warns that that traffic will be joining from the right.
I have been through Sudbury before, but seeing that sign I was totally confused and had no time to try to decode it. Instead I had to look at the TomTom map to make sense of where I was going.
Re: Botched Roadsigns
The Sudbury Junction - notorious because even Sabristi have to use the map!someone wrote: ↑Mon Oct 01, 2018 20:21If that is the reason it only compounds the botch as there is no sign before the tunnels to say traffic for the A1306 needs to use the western one. Possibly there would also need to be a sign giving the alternative route for taller vehicles that must use the eastern tunnel.Bryn666 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 01, 2018 15:51Traffic using the right hand tunnel is being kept away from the J31 exit to prevent weaving, hence the markings. You can move to the right but not the left.someone wrote: ↑Mon Oct 01, 2018 14:15
And although not a road sign, I always wonder about the lane markings on the A282 north of the Dartford tunnels. Surely this is botched?
https://goo.gl/maps/Rti9ajZcMe72
It does not even seem to be for when the bridge is closed, as southbound traffic moves over much later.
It's not conventional, but presumably it was signed off as enforceable by the police.
But I do not see how it can be enforced when the TSRGD Regulation 26 explicitly only applies when "the marking has been so placed that, as viewed in the direction of travel of the vehicle, a continuous line is on the left of a broken line or of another continuous line" in order that they "be so driven as to keep the first-mentioned continuous line on the right hand or off side of the vehicle."
In a normal context traffic moving from lanes one and two can cross similar double lines to overtake then return back to the left. Presumably why the regulation states it as such, to avoid traffic being otherwise technically trapped in an oncoming lane. So the marking does not even prevent all traffic moving from the outside lanes leftwards into the inside ones, only half of the traffic. Which is very weird, and why I always wonder about it when I go that way as I cannot logically make sense of it.
Definitely a botch then.
As for weaving, I saw that Sudbury sign when I was going north from the B1508 to B1115. That journey creates a horrible weave because there is only about thirty yards between where the traffic from the roundabout (joining from the left) and bypassing section of road (joining from the right) come together and then split between the full gyratory (left of the split) or cutting the corner of it (the right of the split).
I would imagine most of the traffic coming from the right will leave the left, so will need to change lanes. But the right side of the split, which cuts the corner to avoid the full gyratory, is the signposted route to use to get to the A134, the direction with the no entry signs on the award diagram. So presumably most of the traffic taking it will have come via that roundabout.
Ideally that spit should be on the sign too to show the alternative route, and better warn traffic of the coming weave. Definitely not an easy layout to depict, but the long section of road bypassing the roundabout has no reason to be there, it seems just a way of lazily only needing one no entry sign and is what makes it confusing. The sign gives more prominence to where you cannot go and does not warn about the impending weave.
Personally I would make the line coming out for the second roundabout exit continue an upwards straight line, with the A131 and (A134) north as the direction. Before that I would show a road coming out for the (A134) south and B1115, and just a stub with a no entry sign for the bypassing section of road. On the roundabout the third exit just a stub with a no entry sign, and the usual broken gap after that. It would need to be taller, but would tell you all you need to know. Left turn for a local street, a split immediately after the second exit, and warns that that traffic will be joining from the right.
I have been through Sudbury before, but seeing that sign I was totally confused and had no time to try to decode it. Instead I had to look at the TomTom map to make sense of where I was going.
Though roads may not put a smile on everyone's face, there is one road that always will: the road to home.
Re: Botched Roadsigns
Make poetry history.
Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Help with maps using the new online calibrator.
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki.
Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Help with maps using the new online calibrator.
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki.
Re: Botched Roadsigns
The gyratory dates back to at least 1984. The sign looks familiar from when I lived in a nearby village back in those days. It's an odd road layout but my recollection is that it works fairly well. The roundabout is separate from the main town gyratory, which keeps a lot of traffic (using the minor road) going to and from the railway station / supermarket / leisure centre / Great Cornard off the gyratory and out of Sudbury town centre.Chris Bertram wrote: ↑Mon Oct 01, 2018 14:33I know that location, and can quite appreciate what it's trying to say, though one feels that there ought to be the regulation gap in the roundabout, at about 5 o'clock in the circle. Sudbury has a large gyratory system around its town centre, I think it takes about 10 minutes to do a complete circuit. This is at the SE corner, where traffic coming in from Great Cornard (I'm sure that should be a breed of bird) meets the circulation, and is more-or-less forced to head via the market place. The roundabout is there to enable traffic from the minor road on the left to turn right, and for traffic from the north to reach said minor road, while traffic already on the gyratory is given a cut-off that avoids the roundabout altogether.someone wrote: ↑Mon Oct 01, 2018 14:15 I do not know if is technically botched, but trying to make sense in the two seconds as you approach it before reaching the roundabout is quite a challenge.
https://goo.gl/maps/ea9DJiAqeZ62
The sign is clearly not new - a modern version would have a larger green patch to include Bury St Edmunds as well as the route number.
Owen
Re: Botched Roadsigns
My dad took this photo in either December 1966 or January 1967. It was at Stoke Charity in Hampshire and of course has long been replaced now.
I'll leave you to decide why they didn't just say one mile!
I'll leave you to decide why they didn't just say one mile!
Re: Botched Roadsigns
Someone appears to have left a gap on this junction sign diagram as if this were a roundabout: https://goo.gl/maps/ufDC8gMs7TA2
Meanwhile, further down the road: https://goo.gl/maps/q35oh5NpLdS2 - I'm sure there may be something wrong, I just wanted to point out that it looks like a tap
Oh, and does the road narrow on both sides to the road ahead or to the right? https://goo.gl/maps/4iKN43KowN92
Meanwhile, further down the road: https://goo.gl/maps/q35oh5NpLdS2 - I'm sure there may be something wrong, I just wanted to point out that it looks like a tap
Oh, and does the road narrow on both sides to the road ahead or to the right? https://goo.gl/maps/4iKN43KowN92
Re: Botched Roadsigns
It was not me!alice wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 13:03 Someone appears to have left a gap on this junction sign diagram as if this were a roundabout: https://goo.gl/maps/ufDC8gMs7TA2
But I would guess that Queen's Road never used to be one-way, and that that is just an old sign for how the junction used to work when the first turn was one-way for traffic joining the main road. I have seen signs elsewhere with a gap to explain that kind of layout. Which I think it does very clearly.
Re: Botched Roadsigns
This from the Isle of Tiree. I was there in 2014; I wonder if it's been corrected by now, more properly than with a permanent marker?!
Re: Botched Roadsigns
Elephant Road, just off Elephant Castle roundabout.
Apart from it being bonkers putting the cycle lane on the footway, what is the meaning of the blue sign with supplementary plate? And then 50 yards further on the cycle lane is in fact on the road, but with the same sign.
I, naively, used to think that road signs were designed by people who knew what they were doing.
Apart from it being bonkers putting the cycle lane on the footway, what is the meaning of the blue sign with supplementary plate? And then 50 yards further on the cycle lane is in fact on the road, but with the same sign.
I, naively, used to think that road signs were designed by people who knew what they were doing.
- Beardy5632
- Member
- Posts: 1436
- Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 16:45
- Location: Forest of Dean
Re: Botched Roadsigns
I spotted this one yesterday when I had to pop down to Monmouth. I might be wrong but I didn't think areas like the Forest were supposed to have distances next to them, I've certainly never seen signs saying x number of miles to the Cotswolds or the Lakes etc
British & Irish cities driven in - 48/75
England - 36/52, Scotland - 7/7, Wales - 5/6, NI - 0/5, RoI - 0/5
England - 36/52, Scotland - 7/7, Wales - 5/6, NI - 0/5, RoI - 0/5
Re: Botched Roadsigns
There are two signs on the A737 Johnstone bypass with typos. Approaching the A761 junction heading south west, this sign misspells it as A781:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.85017 ... 384!8i8192
Further along, another sign gives notice of the B789 junction, but misspells it as B769:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.84361 ... 384!8i8192
I'm pretty sure these signs are not referring to any roads in the centre of Dumfries or the back road to Irvine from the south side of Glasgow. In fact, the middle digits of each number are just the wrong way round and it seems likely that these signs were both installed at a similar time when the digits must have been mixed up.
On a positive note, at least the A781 is signposted somewhere!
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.85017 ... 384!8i8192
Further along, another sign gives notice of the B789 junction, but misspells it as B769:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.84361 ... 384!8i8192
I'm pretty sure these signs are not referring to any roads in the centre of Dumfries or the back road to Irvine from the south side of Glasgow. In fact, the middle digits of each number are just the wrong way round and it seems likely that these signs were both installed at a similar time when the digits must have been mixed up.
On a positive note, at least the A781 is signposted somewhere!
E-roads, M-roads, A-roads, N-roads, B-roads, R-roads, C-roads, L-roads, U-roads, footpaths
Re: Botched Roadsigns
The repeater signs on the B3347 are all full-sized speed limit signs, which is quite confusing when you see them in the distance and expect it to means a speed change before you are close enough to read them.
- Johnathan404
- Member
- Posts: 11478
- Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 16:54
Re: Botched Roadsigns
I have always said I don't think signs which say "except trams" are necessary. I just can't imagine a scenario where a trained tram driver thinks his tram is taking him the wrong way, or where a car goes past a no entry because "that train just did it".
Anyway, this exception plate seems especially excessive.
Anyway, this exception plate seems especially excessive.
I have websites about: motorway services | Fareham
Re: Botched Roadsigns
Another 'mirrored' roundabout sign.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.58235 ... 312!8i6656
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.58235 ... 312!8i6656
Re: Botched Roadsigns
I pass this sign everyday on the way back from work and it irritates me, just after J12 on the M6 northbound.
https://goo.gl/maps/HtBtg4WMa9N2
The "8" is upside down, the "4" of "24" is on a plate, as is "64". "Stoke-on" and "Manchester" are the same.
I can only assume that the sign was in a different location at some point and had to be adapted for it's new location? Bit weird.
https://goo.gl/maps/HtBtg4WMa9N2
The "8" is upside down, the "4" of "24" is on a plate, as is "64". "Stoke-on" and "Manchester" are the same.
I can only assume that the sign was in a different location at some point and had to be adapted for it's new location? Bit weird.
- Johnathan404
- Member
- Posts: 11478
- Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 16:54
Re: Botched Roadsigns
You really would have expected that sign not to survive the roadworks.
I have websites about: motorway services | Fareham