The 11m must have been added in later, but then why would you have a sign suggesting there are motorway services very close by when they are 11 miles away? Maybe it was swapped with another sign within close proximity to the services instead of ordering an expensive replacement sign in its place.
Botched Roadsigns
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Re: Botched Roadsigns
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Re: Botched Roadsigns
Seafront promenade. Very much public.jgharston wrote: ↑Sat Feb 16, 2019 21:59Looks like a shopping centre further along. Private road?
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Re: Botched Roadsigns
I don't think I've seen a sign like that near a services before. Normally you'd have either a measurement or an arrow, surely. I'd guess that was an ordering cockup when Welsh-ising the signs post-WLA. Someone replaced the 11 with the Welsh version on the new sign and omitted all the useful information. Yay WLA and its half-hearted implementation!Euan wrote: ↑Sat Feb 16, 2019 22:59The 11m must have been added in later, but then why would you have a sign suggesting there are motorway services very close by when they are 11 miles away? Maybe it was swapped with another sign within close proximity to the services instead of ordering an expensive replacement sign in its place.
Re: Botched Roadsigns
Mansell Street, Stratford on Avon
https://goo.gl/maps/kXJzz4pQ8xJ2
Sign on post opposite indicates 'One Way'. Arrow painted on roadway indicates 'turn right'
So why the words saying 'No Left turn' surely it should be right turn only or right turn ahead ?
And if they think you might turn left, should there be 'No Entry' signs
https://goo.gl/maps/kXJzz4pQ8xJ2
Sign on post opposite indicates 'One Way'. Arrow painted on roadway indicates 'turn right'
So why the words saying 'No Left turn' surely it should be right turn only or right turn ahead ?
And if they think you might turn left, should there be 'No Entry' signs
- Conekicker
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Re: Botched Roadsigns
There is a No entry sign. Very badly faded but there nonetheless.doebag wrote: ↑Sun Feb 17, 2019 18:35 Mansell Street, Stratford on Avon
https://goo.gl/maps/kXJzz4pQ8xJ2
Sign on post opposite indicates 'One Way'. Arrow painted on roadway indicates 'turn right'
So why the words saying 'No Left turn' surely it should be right turn only or right turn ahead ?
And if they think you might turn left, should there be 'No Entry' signs
There is no legal requirement other than to sufficiently inform the driver of what they are required to do. In this case it would be the Turn right vertical sign (Diagram 606), which can be expected to be reliably seen in all weather conditions, which the road markings cannot guarantee. Everything else is merely icing on the cake and these days, it could be argued, simply clutter.
Patience is not a virtue - it's a concept invented by the dozy beggars who are unable to think quickly enough.
- Conekicker
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Re: Botched Roadsigns
Fail:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.77686 ... 6656?hl=en
Consistent at least:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.77485 ... 6656?hl=en
Shame. They were told as well. On at least two occasions. Still, one can't force people to listen, eh?
S12-2-4 refers.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.77686 ... 6656?hl=en
Consistent at least:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.77485 ... 6656?hl=en
Shame. They were told as well. On at least two occasions. Still, one can't force people to listen, eh?
S12-2-4 refers.
Last edited by Conekicker on Sun Feb 17, 2019 21:34, edited 1 time in total.
Patience is not a virtue - it's a concept invented by the dozy beggars who are unable to think quickly enough.
Re: Botched Roadsigns
That has confused me even more. I could understand the No Entry signs being set back to allow access to the cinema car park or the car park next to it, but the signage prohibits the left turn to gain this access surely ?Conekicker wrote: ↑Sun Feb 17, 2019 21:23
There is a No entry sign. Very badly faded but there nonetheless.
There is no legal requirement other than to sufficiently inform the driver of what they are required to do. In this case it would be the Turn right vertical sign (Diagram 606), which can be expected to be reliably seen in all weather conditions, which the road markings cannot guarantee. Everything else is merely icing on the cake and these days, it could be argued, simply clutter.
- Conekicker
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Re: Botched Roadsigns
Looking on Streetview, it seems clear that the car park is accessed from the roundabout on Guild Street. I don't see what's confusing.doebag wrote: ↑Sun Feb 17, 2019 21:34That has confused me even more. I could understand the No Entry signs being set back to allow access to the cinema car park or the car park next to it, but the signage prohibits the left turn to gain this access surely ?Conekicker wrote: ↑Sun Feb 17, 2019 21:23
There is a No entry sign. Very badly faded but there nonetheless.
There is no legal requirement other than to sufficiently inform the driver of what they are required to do. In this case it would be the Turn right vertical sign (Diagram 606), which can be expected to be reliably seen in all weather conditions, which the road markings cannot guarantee. Everything else is merely icing on the cake and these days, it could be argued, simply clutter.
Patience is not a virtue - it's a concept invented by the dozy beggars who are unable to think quickly enough.
Re: Botched Roadsigns
Assuming that you know what 'park and ride' means, then I can't see anything confusing here.Conekicker wrote: ↑Sun Feb 17, 2019 21:30 Fail:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.77686 ... 6656?hl=en
Consistent at least:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.77485 ... 6656?hl=en
Shame. They were told as well. On at least two occasions. Still, one can't force people to listen, eh?
S12-2-4 refers.
I saw one near Sunderland recently which said 'park and walk', which is a long-winded way of saying 'car park'.
- Conekicker
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Re: Botched Roadsigns
Confusing? No.Brigham wrote: ↑Mon Feb 18, 2019 16:13Assuming that you know what 'park and ride' means, then I can't see anything confusing here.Conekicker wrote: ↑Sun Feb 17, 2019 21:30 Fail:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.77686 ... 6656?hl=en
Consistent at least:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.77485 ... 6656?hl=en
Shame. They were told as well. On at least two occasions. Still, one can't force people to listen, eh?
S12-2-4 refers.
I saw one near Sunderland recently which said 'park and walk', which is a long-winded way of saying 'car park'.
Incorrect and thus unlawful? Yes.
Patience is not a virtue - it's a concept invented by the dozy beggars who are unable to think quickly enough.
Re: Botched Roadsigns
(A former Stratfordian writes:)Conekicker wrote: ↑Sun Feb 17, 2019 21:39Looking on Streetview, it seems clear that the car park is accessed from the roundabout on Guild Street. I don't see what's confusing.doebag wrote: ↑Sun Feb 17, 2019 21:34That has confused me even more. I could understand the No Entry signs being set back to allow access to the cinema car park or the car park next to it, but the signage prohibits the left turn to gain this access surely ?Conekicker wrote: ↑Sun Feb 17, 2019 21:23
There is a No entry sign. Very badly faded but there nonetheless.
There is no legal requirement other than to sufficiently inform the driver of what they are required to do. In this case it would be the Turn right vertical sign (Diagram 606), which can be expected to be reliably seen in all weather conditions, which the road markings cannot guarantee. Everything else is merely icing on the cake and these days, it could be argued, simply clutter.
What's confusing is that the "no entry" signs are set about 25 metres back from the Mansell Street / Windsor Street junction -- Windsor Street beyond (north of) the signs being two-way. It looks to me as if the intention when they were first installed was to allow access from Mansell Street to private frontages and entrances on Windsor Street as far as the no-entry "gate". GSV shows that in 2009 there was even a brief left-turn lane at the bottom of Mansell Street. By 2010, however, the private car park opposite the short terrace of houses and a shop had become a pay-and-display public car park and (almost certainly in consequence) the extra lane in Mansell Street had been hatched over and a painted "No left turn" added to the road surface.
It's all rather untidy to my mind, though. Are those 25 metres one-way or not? As I think you imply, "no entry" painted on the road is not a legal sign in itself. If there is really an immediate prohibition of movement northward along Windsor Street from its junction with Mansell Street (and that does seem to be the intention -- I wonder what the relevant traffic order says?) then the "no entry" signs should be moved to that point. This would also overcome the dubious legality of using "no entry" signs (to diagram 616) to prohibit entry to a two-way road (the northernmost part of Windsor Street). As I read the TSM, such signs can only be used to prohibit entry to a one-way road. Would any professionals care to comment?
Re: Botched Roadsigns
While this sign clearly IS a very poorly remedied cock-up (somebody forgot to include the mileage when the sign was first ordered and/or made up), I don't believe that the botch has anything directly to do with the Welsh Language Act. I've been driving this motorway for 35 years plus (since well before implementation of the WLA 1993 anyway) and I can't remember a time when the M4 in Wales had monolingual signs. There is a sign not too far away on the opposite carriageway (and which looks to be of the same "vintage") indicating an 11-mile distance to the next services westward, but it has the full text of (equally font-sized!) "Services / Gwasanaethau / 11 m". [Have always hated that use of "m" for "miles", though!]DB617 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 17, 2019 13:17I don't think I've seen a sign like that near a services before. Normally you'd have either a measurement or an arrow, surely. I'd guess that was an ordering cockup when Welsh-ising the signs post-WLA. Someone replaced the 11 with the Welsh version on the new sign and omitted all the useful information. Yay WLA and its half-hearted implementation!Euan wrote: ↑Sat Feb 16, 2019 22:59The 11m must have been added in later, but then why would you have a sign suggesting there are motorway services very close by when they are 11 miles away? Maybe it was swapped with another sign within close proximity to the services instead of ordering an expensive replacement sign in its place.
Re: Botched Roadsigns
I guess that was just my assumption as to why the sign was replaced, but then given the age of the stretch it could also be original. It's just one of those situations that I run into as a technician where I think, "why did everyone involved in getting this *thing* into *place* look at this and decide it was okay?"Viator wrote: ↑Mon Feb 18, 2019 19:34While this sign clearly IS a very poorly remedied cock-up (somebody forgot to include the mileage when the sign was first ordered and/or made up), I don't believe that the botch has anything directly to do with the Welsh Language Act. I've been driving this motorway for 35 years plus (since well before implementation of the WLA 1993 anyway) and I can't remember a time when the M4 in Wales had monolingual signs. There is a sign not too far away on the opposite carriageway (and which looks to be of the same "vintage") indicating an 11-mile distance to the next services westward, but it has the full text of (equally font-sized!) "Services / Gwasanaethau / 11 m". [Have always hated that use of "m" for "miles", though!]DB617 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 17, 2019 13:17I don't think I've seen a sign like that near a services before. Normally you'd have either a measurement or an arrow, surely. I'd guess that was an ordering cockup when Welsh-ising the signs post-WLA. Someone replaced the 11 with the Welsh version on the new sign and omitted all the useful information. Yay WLA and its half-hearted implementation!Euan wrote: ↑Sat Feb 16, 2019 22:59
The 11m must have been added in later, but then why would you have a sign suggesting there are motorway services very close by when they are 11 miles away? Maybe it was swapped with another sign within close proximity to the services instead of ordering an expensive replacement sign in its place.
Re: Botched Roadsigns
Spotted one today at on the eastbound off-slip of J36 on the M62, which can be seen very clearly from the motorway itself. Unfortunately Streetview only has an indication of the mess - the view from August 2016 shows a somewhat empty sign, which has now been filled with hideous patches of differing, questionable fonts - would enocurage anyone planning a trip that way who can to get their camera out to photgraph it!!
Re: Botched Roadsigns
There's a slightly newer view from the main carriageway on GSV: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.70738 ... 312!8i6656Rob590 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 18, 2019 20:59 Spotted one today at on the eastbound off-slip of J36 on the M62, which can be seen very clearly from the motorway itself. Unfortunately Streetview only has an indication of the mess - the view from August 2016 shows a somewhat empty sign, which has now been filled with hideous patches of differing, questionable fonts - would enocurage anyone planning a trip that way who can to get their camera out to photgraph it!!
Re: Botched Roadsigns
In other words, a fine example of The Law being an Ass.Conekicker wrote: ↑Mon Feb 18, 2019 18:59Confusing? No.Brigham wrote: ↑Mon Feb 18, 2019 16:13Assuming that you know what 'park and ride' means, then I can't see anything confusing here.Conekicker wrote: ↑Sun Feb 17, 2019 21:30 Fail:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.77686 ... 6656?hl=en
Consistent at least:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.77485 ... 6656?hl=en
Shame. They were told as well. On at least two occasions. Still, one can't force people to listen, eh?
S12-2-4 refers.
I saw one near Sunderland recently which said 'park and walk', which is a long-winded way of saying 'car park'.
Incorrect and thus unlawful? Yes.
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Re: Botched Roadsigns
'Dyell, that's an abortion.
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Re: Botched Roadsigns
Attack of the backwards roundabouts part 94. Wincanton, A371.
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Re: Botched Roadsigns
This is surely, being charitable, an "inventive" use of the direction arrow??
https://goo.gl/maps/jKgk5qtfJ5Q2
https://goo.gl/maps/jKgk5qtfJ5Q2