Botched Roadsigns
Moderator: Site Management Team
Re: Botched Roadsigns
There has been road works here for quite sometime (since Summer 2018 - 3 YEARS!). And it did look like this - https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.23087 ... 384!8i8192
The Mandatory Left/Banned Right being on top of each other looks odd and the stack sign not being greyed out on the left isn't great.
However due to Pelham Bridge being closed for 10 weeks, this junction is on the diversion route, so 3 weeks into the Pelham Bridge Works it has been decided to reopen the closed lane here for the remainder of the works period due to traffic backing up in all directions.
This is what it looks like now. https://youtu.be/-WkY8tFJf7A It has had near zero impact on traffic. Also quite a few traffic counters have been installed all across the city centre this week.
Things that are wrong/botched in the video:
1. Road Narrows on left sign - no it doesn't any more.
2. First "get in lane sign" shows both lanes going "ahead" while both lanes actually turn left.
3. Road markings still show left and right turn lanes (faintly) even though they are now both left turn.
4. Stack sign on the left doesn't have the right stack covered up.
5. Second "get in lane" sign has mandatory left/banned right turn diagrams at the bottom directly below the destinations. Botched and could be confusing. Also lacking arrows.
The Mandatory Left/Banned Right being on top of each other looks odd and the stack sign not being greyed out on the left isn't great.
However due to Pelham Bridge being closed for 10 weeks, this junction is on the diversion route, so 3 weeks into the Pelham Bridge Works it has been decided to reopen the closed lane here for the remainder of the works period due to traffic backing up in all directions.
This is what it looks like now. https://youtu.be/-WkY8tFJf7A It has had near zero impact on traffic. Also quite a few traffic counters have been installed all across the city centre this week.
Things that are wrong/botched in the video:
1. Road Narrows on left sign - no it doesn't any more.
2. First "get in lane sign" shows both lanes going "ahead" while both lanes actually turn left.
3. Road markings still show left and right turn lanes (faintly) even though they are now both left turn.
4. Stack sign on the left doesn't have the right stack covered up.
5. Second "get in lane" sign has mandatory left/banned right turn diagrams at the bottom directly below the destinations. Botched and could be confusing. Also lacking arrows.
Re: Botched Roadsigns
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- Skermington
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- Location: Welwyn Garden City via Derbyshire and Newcastle
Re: Botched Roadsigns
They’re basically OK I think, but today you’d use the specific “mini roundabout” symbol which would make the whole sign much smaller. The mini roundabout symbol for advance direction signs probably didn’t yet exist when these were made - it came much later than the invention of mini roundabouts themselves.Skermington wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 14:57 A lot doesn't sit right with me on these two signs in Chiswell Green.
Chris
Roads.org.uk
Roads.org.uk
Re: Botched Roadsigns
But either way, the destinations, including road number, should be aligned to the left, shouldn't they?Chris5156 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 19:55They’re basically OK I think, but today you’d use the specific “mini roundabout” symbol which would make the whole sign much smaller. The mini roundabout symbol for advance direction signs probably didn’t yet exist when these were made - it came much later than the invention of mini roundabouts themselves.Skermington wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 14:57 A lot doesn't sit right with me on these two signs in Chiswell Green.
Re: Botched Roadsigns
It is, but it is also quite important, as the diversion for overheight vehicles is significant and so you really don't want them continuing blithely ahead. There's a turning on the right after about a mile that is signed as "Hereford, alternative route avoiding low bridge", and then after that there is nowhere suitable to turn a lorry round until a parking area about a mile or two from the bridge itself.
Definitely a better setup than on the A44 approaching Crossgates, where as far as I can see there is one warning sign just after the only suitable alternative route (7 miles before the bridge) and then nothing else until you get to the bridge itself.
Re: Botched Roadsigns
Totally botched, including the amended imperial unit, but that is a clever fix. Don't tell the sign puristsStevie D wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 00:07It is, but it is also quite important, as the diversion for overheight vehicles is significant and so you really don't want them continuing blithely ahead. There's a turning on the right after about a mile that is signed as "Hereford, alternative route avoiding low bridge", and then after that there is nowhere suitable to turn a lorry round until a parking area about a mile or two from the bridge itself.
Definitely a better setup than on the A44 approaching Crossgates, where as far as I can see there is one warning sign just after the only suitable alternative route (7 miles before the bridge) and then nothing else until you get to the bridge itself.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
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Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: Botched Roadsigns
Ooh, yes, you’re right. I was so busy looking at the symbols and the junction I missed that! The first two lines are aligned correctly but the last two have been centred as though they are a single phrase.TS wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 22:38But either way, the destinations, including road number, should be aligned to the left, shouldn't they?Chris5156 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 19:55They’re basically OK I think, but today you’d use the specific “mini roundabout” symbol which would make the whole sign much smaller. The mini roundabout symbol for advance direction signs probably didn’t yet exist when these were made - it came much later than the invention of mini roundabouts themselves.Skermington wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 14:57 A lot doesn't sit right with me on these two signs in Chiswell Green.
Chris
Roads.org.uk
Roads.org.uk
- the cheesecake man
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- Conekicker
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- Location: South Yorks
Re: Botched Roadsigns
Only if the designer doesn't know what they are doing. So, very sadly, more normal than you'd think.the cheesecake man wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 13:01 Road number before the destinations. Is that normal?
If you'd asked if it's wrong, the answer would be "Yes".
Patience is not a virtue - it's a concept invented by the dozy beggars who are unable to think quickly enough.
Re: Botched Roadsigns
I think the logic there is that you start off with all the destinations reached along the road, and then move to destinations reached along other roads.the cheesecake man wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 13:01 Road number before the destinations. Is that normal?
So you have:
" A6182
Sheffield (M18, M1)
(A1(M))
Scunthorpe (M180)"
because the A6182 doesn't (or at least, didn't) go to anywhere, there were no destinations to list before the road number.
- Conekicker
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- Location: South Yorks
Re: Botched Roadsigns
At that location, there's no need to mention the A1(M), M1 or M180, they just overload the sign and subsequent ones that should then carry them for consistency.Stevie D wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 20:25I think the logic there is that you start off with all the destinations reached along the road, and then move to destinations reached along other roads.the cheesecake man wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 13:01 Road number before the destinations. Is that normal?
So you have:
" A6182
Sheffield (M18, M1)
(A1(M))
Scunthorpe (M180)"
because the A6182 doesn't (or at least, didn't) go to anywhere, there were no destinations to list before the road number.
A clearer block of text would be...
(M18)
Scunthorpe
Sheffield
A6182
...as (M18) is a motorway and thus should be before Scunthorpe. Scunny should be before Sheffield as it's further away, "furthest first".
Patience is not a virtue - it's a concept invented by the dozy beggars who are unable to think quickly enough.
Re: Botched Roadsigns
I've never liked the furthest first rule, and it appears 99% of sign designers don't either as it is so inconsistently applied you'd never know it was actually a rule.Conekicker wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 20:59At that location, there's no need to mention the A1(M), M1 or M180, they just overload the sign and subsequent ones that should then carry them for consistency.Stevie D wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 20:25I think the logic there is that you start off with all the destinations reached along the road, and then move to destinations reached along other roads.the cheesecake man wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 13:01 Road number before the destinations. Is that normal?
So you have:
" A6182
Sheffield (M18, M1)
(A1(M))
Scunthorpe (M180)"
because the A6182 doesn't (or at least, didn't) go to anywhere, there were no destinations to list before the road number.
A clearer block of text would be...
(M18)
Scunthorpe
Sheffield
A6182
...as (M18) is a motorway and thus should be before Scunthorpe. Scunny should be before Sheffield as it's further away, "furthest first".
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: Botched Roadsigns
Further evidence for which is that the spacing and alignment is a complete mess. The vertical line representing the approach to the roundabout should also reach the bottom of the panel, rather than starting in mid-air.Conekicker wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 16:32Only if the designer doesn't know what they are doing. So, very sadly, more normal than you'd think.the cheesecake man wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 13:01 Road number before the destinations. Is that normal?
If you'd asked if it's wrong, the answer would be "Yes".
Chris
Roads.org.uk
Roads.org.uk
-
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Re: Botched Roadsigns
An interesting one here - my understanding is that all direction signs on a motorway must be blue, and the normal rules about patching etc don't apply. So is this a botch? Even if not on a motorway, I would have thought that the diagram and text should be in black.
Of course, the "works unit" is nothing of the sort. It seems a bit odd to obscure the purpose of the junction by mis-describing it as a works unit and then flag up the real purpose with the colour of the sign.
If you do take the exit (there's nothing explicitly prohibiting it, and it has the normal junction markings) you'll encounter something that's definitely a botch - There is a gate with the "end of motorway" sign just beyond it. So you may not stop or U-turn, even though there's a closed gate blocking your way and you need to U-turn to get back on the motorway.
Of course, the "works unit" is nothing of the sort. It seems a bit odd to obscure the purpose of the junction by mis-describing it as a works unit and then flag up the real purpose with the colour of the sign.
If you do take the exit (there's nothing explicitly prohibiting it, and it has the normal junction markings) you'll encounter something that's definitely a botch - There is a gate with the "end of motorway" sign just beyond it. So you may not stop or U-turn, even though there's a closed gate blocking your way and you need to U-turn to get back on the motorway.
Re: Botched Roadsigns
adding to the "botch", isn't the use of red for the diagram part wrong as well? It is a classic, and you do have to wonder about the decision making involved
-
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Re: Botched Roadsigns
But you can use the toilet and stay in a caravan, both of which seem to be parked on the motorway.SteelCamel wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 14:02 So you may not stop or U-turn, even though there's a closed gate blocking your way and you need to U-turn to get back on the motorway.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.45154 ... 312!8i6656
Re: Botched Roadsigns
could be disguised as a secret entrance to RAF WelfordSteelCamel wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 14:02 An interesting one here - my understanding is that all direction signs on a motorway must be blue, and the normal rules about patching etc don't apply. So is this a botch? Even if not on a motorway, I would have thought that the diagram and text should be in black.
Of course, the "works unit" is nothing of the sort. It seems a bit odd to obscure the purpose of the junction by mis-describing it as a works unit and then flag up the real purpose with the colour of the sign.
If you do take the exit (there's nothing explicitly prohibiting it, and it has the normal junction markings) you'll encounter something that's definitely a botch - There is a gate with the "end of motorway" sign just beyond it. So you may not stop or U-turn, even though there's a closed gate blocking your way and you need to U-turn to get back on the motorway.
Re: Botched Roadsigns
It is a back entrance to RAF Welford, there's no secret about it. The reason the sign has a red border is because that is the colour for signs indicating military installations.
Chris
Roads.org.uk
Roads.org.uk