End of the road for Mellor signals?

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Beardy5632
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Re: End of the road for Mellor signals?

Post by Beardy5632 »

There is one Mellor crossing I hope they don't get rid of.
"Cassie's Crossing" north of Gloucester on the A40/A38 roundabout. It was put up in 2002 by a women whose daughter was killed on the Golden Valley Bypass (A40).
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Re: End of the road for Mellor signals?

Post by Gareth »

I very much doubt they'll preserve that Mellor installation just because it was introduced out of tragedy. In fact, I'd very much doubt that the bereaved mother would even notice if one day there were suddenly Helio signals patrolling that crossing.

That said, 2002 is fairly recent, so they've probably got many more years ahead of them, especially if they have nearside pedestrian signals.
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Re: End of the road for Mellor signals?

Post by DorsetWay »

The problem is Glos CC are on a mission to upgrade its signals to LED which new or upgraded installations are all LED using the Microsense 3G (the new ultra-bright smaller signals with squared off borders) already seen in parts of Gloucester.

If Cassie's crossing has nearside ped signals then I doubt anything will change there for a long while.

Councils tend to focus more on sites with farside ped signals replacing these with nearsides. It is just the way things are now as nearside signals are now the preferred standard for crossings.
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Re: End of the road for Mellor signals?

Post by Beardy5632 »

DorsetWay wrote:The problem is Glos CC are on a mission to upgrade its signals to LED which new or upgraded installations are all LED using the Microsense 3G (the new ultra-bright smaller signals with squared off borders) already seen in parts of Gloucester.
I've noticed that. The set of lights on the A417 Over Causeway going into the city were upgraded a few months ago, but were put up in 2005 when the new bypass was getting built. Also on the new bypass itself, the first set of lights that you come to after the A417 junction have also been upgraded, and they were only put up in 2005 or 2006.

They are doing it in the Forest of Dean as well. Changes are:-
The 2 sets at the A4136/A4151 junction in Cinderford.
The set at the A4136/B4228 junction in Coleford.
The set on the old bridge at Chepstow.
The set on the A466 Bigsweir Bridge.
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Re: End of the road for Mellor signals?

Post by Beardy5632 »

DorsetWay wrote:If Cassie's crossing has nearside ped signals then I doubt anything will change there for a long while.
No, it has farside signals, so it could be for the chop, but fingers crossed, they will hopefully leave it. :|
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Re: End of the road for Mellor signals?

Post by traffic-light-man »

Unfortunately the only set of signals on the A570 St Helens Link Way, a dual Mellor pelican, are up for replacement at the moment. The 6 columns are sat in Texaco barrels with failure of signals boards attached - all of the 5 boards I could see were all upside-down! Unfortunately I didn't have my camera, but they may still be there when I'm going to work this evening.

On the other side of town, on the A58, the site thats currently being upgraded, I assume to LED, appears to be going good at the moment, although rather slow. It actually a bit of a throwback - they're all in barrels not NAL blocks, there's signals lying on the ground and everything!

There's also another set of battered GEC signals with a nice old (small dot) fibre optic right turn filter in St Helens up for replacement according to the sign, although when work will start is still a mystery as the sign states some time in 2009...
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Re: End of the road for Mellor signals?

Post by Beardy5632 »

When I was in Gloucester yesterday, I noticed that some of the traffic lights at Cole Avenue (A38/A430/B4008) were getting taken down, and I think they are being replaced.

In a way I'm not surprised after I read this.
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Re: End of the road for Mellor signals?

Post by Gareth »

So 15 years is the standard life span of a signal installation? Seems short considering I know sites around these parts which are easily 1980s. A lot of our tin lanterns here in Liverpool saw the 90s too.
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Re: End of the road for Mellor signals?

Post by boing_uk »

15 years is the design life of the equipment and the time it has to be supported by the OEM, not its finite life. Ive got kit up on street that is 1977 vintage, and poles which went up in 1964. The physically oldest site, in terms of re-used equipment is 1953 (but thats just the ducts :D ) - although the actual physical layout of the junction hasnt changed and the poles are 1971 vintage.
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Re: End of the road for Mellor signals?

Post by Bryn666 »

Where's that then? :lol:
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Re: End of the road for Mellor signals?

Post by Gareth »

boing_uk wrote:15 years is the design life of the equipment and the time it has to be supported by the OEM, not its finite life. Ive got kit up on street that is 1977 vintage, and poles which went up in 1964. The physically oldest site, in terms of re-used equipment is 1953 (but thats just the ducts :D ) - although the actual physical layout of the junction hasnt changed and the poles are 1971 vintage.
Interesting. As a signal engineer, do you have access to complete records of each signal junction and its upgrades?

I assume the 1964 poles were tin or SGE poles, whilst 1977 saw a controller upgrade and probably 'mellorization' too. Are the 1971 poles very early mellor poles? I know the Mellor came out in 1970, but can imagine existing stocks of tin & SGE poles (& signal heads perhaps) being used into the early seventies.
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Re: End of the road for Mellor signals?

Post by boing_uk »

Most of my junctions were given the HI treatment between 1977 and 1984. Most pelicans were fully refurbished between 1980 and 1986.

Bryn, I'm sure you can guess which ones :p
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Re: End of the road for Mellor signals?

Post by Bryn666 »

Ah yes, I probably can.

Surprised one in particular hasn't been on fire yet.
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Gareth
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Re: End of the road for Mellor signals?

Post by Gareth »

boing_uk wrote:Most of my junctions were given the HI treatment between 1977 and 1984. Most pelicans were fully refurbished between 1980 and 1986.

Bryn, I'm sure you can guess which ones :p
Pardon my sillyness, but what do you mean by 'HI treatment'?

Also, a google map link to the 1964 site would be really interesting, if possible.
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Re: End of the road for Mellor signals?

Post by Dudley »

I didn't mean to, I swear.
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Re: End of the road for Mellor signals?

Post by A303Paul »

The last tin lanterns were a GEC set outside oxford station and a plessey set in Liverpool that disappeared before the millenium. I did an extensive photo survey of both in the '90s using 35mm slide film.
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Re: End of the road for Mellor signals?

Post by traffic-light-man »

Dudley wrote:I didn't mean to, I swear.
Not sure I follow what's going on here...
A303Paul wrote:The last tin lanterns were a GEC set outside oxford station and a plessey set in Liverpool that disappeared before the millenium. I did an extensive photo survey of both in the '90s using 35mm slide film.
Not quite - 2001 they were removed! The junction nearly managed to skip an era as it was replaced with MSH lanterns in full (the tin pedestrian heads were changed to Mellors in the late 90s, but not too long before the whole lot was binned for the Modulars).
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Re: End of the road for Mellor signals?

Post by A303Paul »

Any idea why they survived so long?, they seemed to be a fairly late tin lantern installation as none of them had STOP in the red lights.

I think the Oxford ones survived because the junction was due for redevelopment and the start date dragged on and on.

From what I remember the "tin" pedestrian heads were red green man so would have presumably themselves been a 70s or 80s mod from the old red and white WAIT and CROSS signals.
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Re: End of the road for Mellor signals?

Post by Gareth »

A303Paul wrote:Any idea why they survived so long?, they seemed to be a fairly late tin lantern installation as none of them had STOP in the red lights.

I think the Oxford ones survived because the junction was due for redevelopment and the start date dragged on and on.

From what I remember the "tin" pedestrian heads were red green man so would have presumably themselves been a 70s or 80s mod from the old red and white WAIT and CROSS signals.
Liverpool had tons of tin lanterns up until the early 90s. Around 1991/2 the council seemed to really crack down on them though, seemingly not even rebuilding the junction, rather just replacing each existing tin pole with a mellor one, like for like. The last survivors included ones on Pembroke Place/Daulby Street which saw 1995, possibly 1996. Ones by Goodison Park went around 1998/9, so the Calderstones ones weren't especially unique in the longevity.

I have no idea why they had no 'STOP' on the red lenses. Every other set I remember had it. They were also unique in that the pedestrian signals had no blackout phase.

As for the red/green men, again, from my memories from the late 80s and early 90s, all Liverpool's surviving tin lanterns that I remember had red/green men. They were the standard full-sized tin head with two oblong aspects. The men were seemingly exactly the same size and design as in the mellor lanterns. I always assumed they were original. I mean, the X-way, the pre-cursor to the pelican crossing came out in 1967 complete with the red/green men, so I assumed that junctions were altered at the same time. This would mean tin lanterns made from 1967 through to 1970 would've had red/green men and logically, these newer installations will have naturally been the ones which were the last to be removed. Surely any retrofits in the 70s and 80s would've been mellor ped lanterns.
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Re: End of the road for Mellor signals?

Post by A303Paul »

Gareth wrote:
A303Paul wrote:Any idea why they survived so long?, they seemed to be a fairly late tin lantern installation as none of them had STOP in the red lights.

I think the Oxford ones survived because the junction was due for redevelopment and the start date dragged on and on.

From what I remember the "tin" pedestrian heads were red green man so would have presumably themselves been a 70s or 80s mod from the old red and white WAIT and CROSS signals.
Liverpool had tons of tin lanterns up until the early 90s. Around 1991/2 the council seemed to really crack down on them though, seemingly not even rebuilding the junction, rather just replacing each existing tin pole with a mellor one, like for like. The last survivors included ones on Pembroke Place/Daulby Street which saw 1995, possibly 1996. Ones by Goodison Park went around 1998/9, so the Calderstones ones weren't especially unique in the longevity.

I have no idea why they had no 'STOP' on the red lenses. Every other set I remember had it. They were also unique in that the pedestrian signals had no blackout phase.

As for the red/green men, again, from my memories from the late 80s and early 90s, all Liverpool's surviving tin lanterns that I remember had red/green men. They were the standard full-sized tin head with two oblong aspects. The men were seemingly exactly the same size and design as in the mellor lanterns. I always assumed they were original. I mean, the X-way, the pre-cursor to the pelican crossing came out in 1967 complete with the red/green men, so I assumed that junctions were altered at the same time. This would mean tin lanterns made from 1967 through to 1970 would've had red/green men and logically, these newer installations will have naturally been the ones which were the last to be removed. Surely any retrofits in the 70s and 80s would've been mellor ped lanterns.

I remember that in London there was a programme to replace all the red/white wait/cross lights with red and green men. The men themselves were like mellors but the housing was rectanglar with no shades.

Most of the tin lanterns in South London had the heads replaced with Mellors but the pole left intact and painted grey, with the distinctive "policemans helmet" at the top remaining. Pretty well all gone now
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