Pre-Worboys or not?

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DavidNW9
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Re: Pre-Worboys or not?

Post by DavidNW9 »

The pointed corners on the 40 and flat top 30s are the giveaways, that's one of the old ones.
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Re: Pre-Worboys or not?

Post by chris486 »

PeterA5145 wrote:
Big L wrote:40 sign in Wigan.
I'm sure I've read that the speed limit on that stretch of road was reduced from 40 to 30 in recent years, so that sign must have been recycled from somewhere else.

It was still there in December 2013 - I spotted it heading towards the motorway and mentioned it in this thread. It's part of a mismatched pair.

http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/forum/vie ... &start=980
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Re: Pre-Worboys or not?

Post by Big L »

I went past it on Tuesday.
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Re: Pre-Worboys or not?

Post by Nicholas »

PeterA5145 wrote:
Big L wrote:40 sign in Wigan.
I'm sure I've read that the speed limit on that stretch of road was reduced from 40 to 30 in recent years, so that sign must have been recycled from somewhere else.
It's been 30/40 at that point for as long as I've known it. It is only a short section of 40mph, up to the M6 roundabout, with it falling to 30mph because of the close proximity of several junctions.

To be honest, it would be unusual for Wigan Council to recycle signs, they like to replace with new.
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Re: Pre-Worboys or not?

Post by shampooefficient »

Well, I've recently had a wonderful conversation with the local council regarding an old blue "P" sign. It's due for replacement this year, and so I thought I'd see where it was going to end up. Thinking it would make a nice drive ornament... I even offered to make a decent charity donation in the name of the council if I could save it from scrap, but it came to nothing. So I ended up opening my big box of sarcasm. I'll post it up here once I remember my email password...
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Re: Pre-Worboys or not?

Post by DavidNW9 »

The P signs changed so little in 1964 only an expert could tell the difference. Unless it's knackered I can't see why they'd waste money changing it, especially if it's cast as they go on forever.
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Re: Pre-Worboys or not?

Post by shampooefficient »

DavidNW9 wrote:The P signs changed so little in 1964 only an expert could tell the difference. Unless it's knackered I can't see why they'd waste money changing it, especially if it's cast as they go on forever.
Visible here (I hope) - https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=11+Hig ... m&t=m&z=19

- apparently they're going to be altering the parking layout and restrictions at some point in the near future so the sign will be getting moved and replaced...
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Re: Pre-Worboys or not?

Post by DavidNW9 »

As long as they're making changes that's a valid reason. That is a lovely example though, one I've managed to get a single one with a raised letter, although there's also a road with a few ropy flat ones as well I've been to. Although I somehow never took a photo of it there was an old direction arrow at the end of my road till about 2007 (ie just before I discovered the others and started taking them) which survived a kerb buildout, but when they made the road 20 they took it away presumably as it was in the way of the speed limit. I'd personally rather know where I was going but what do I know...

If anyone has ever seen a sign pointing to Hendon please let me know, as that was the one. I never thought it was PW as although I've now seen the back of it which implies my memory is wrong I thought it was more like a white arrow which would have appeared like a fingerpost, but the back view is a lot bigger and all the rest round here had blue borders but I can't remember more than what it said.
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Re: Pre-Worboys or not?

Post by DavidNW9 »

I've seen a few of these online and 99% sure, but just wondering whether the no waiting circles were universal? One clue is I found some old circles online saying 'parking for residents only' on the old format, so the word was used, but these are so rare now I want to make sure. It was on a green on a main road in Shepperton, on a drive leading to some houses. The others I know of are on a private estate on a public road in Salfords which was up for demolition in the pictures. Anyone know for certain as they aren't in the manuals at least.

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Re: Pre-Worboys or not?

Post by DavidNW9 »

Bit of a mystery, so far I've only found the pole type boundary markers, all in SW London for some reason, but here's an actual sign in Roehampton. Wandsworth to the left, Malden and Coombe to the right, all I can go on were the town entry names which don't count as they weren't standardised or directions, unless they have the places ahead underneath which then turn them into direction signs. As this is the first of its kind (and maybe the only one) a new decision has to be taken. Could a sign telling you you are crossing from one place to the next be included?

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Re: Pre-Worboys or not?

Post by Chris5156 »

That looks more like a boundary marker than a road sign as such. You get them all over the place, often looking like tiny milestones.
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Re: Pre-Worboys or not?

Post by DavidNW9 »

Thanks Chris, I've found a number of upright metal pole types of boundary markers but none made on normal panels like this.
In case you missed this last week I'm not actually double posting the same picture as I found this duplicate today. As I found bridges before 1933 were issued by the makers (railways, waterways and councils) I don't think such a national version existed, although I've seen a picture of one without an issuer taken in a museum, but these appear to be the norm of the era.

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Re: Pre-Worboys or not?

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These sort of signs seem to have been shared fairly evenly between national and council issues, but I've seen pictures of no driving on grass verge and no horse riding on grass verge on main roads which were definitely national, and this was on what looked like a council estate in Hemel Hempstead so not sure. But once they added the initials C.N.T. then it pretty well wrecked my theory as no national sign either has Hemel Hempstead Council on it, or anything else even if you can't understand it. It turns out this means the Council for New Towns, here taking in Hemel Hempstead, Berkhamsted and Tring, and presumably that would elevate them all to PW signs if made in the format as I'd have hoped they would have the same status of the RAC for issuing road signs within their own ranges. http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.u ... 266620dd55

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Re: Pre-Worboys or not?

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I am 90% sure this is OK, ignore the chevron as it was added more recently, but this is a standard direction arrow without a border or an arrowhead. The G dates it from 1957-64 and I know there were the odd rogue designs that got through, plus the arrowhead wasn't originally there for road number ones, they had a horizontal line through the middle dividing the number from the place. But had this had its arrowhead it would be perfect. Logmore Green is a tiny dead end village along a track and although the road has a 10mph limit as it is so narrow it appears to be a public one. What do we think?

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Re: Pre-Worboys or not?

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This one in Northolt totally falls in the crack, I'm split 50-50. Pro: No parking- pre-Worboys. Public road. Standard format.

Con: Unfamiliar status, may be issued by local estate.

Any views?

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Re: Pre-Worboys or not?

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Milestones often have distance plates attached, I found one yesterday. However, I have just found one a few miles along in Whitchurch where the same plates are on the side of a house, identical otherwise but off the stones look like a standard route confirmation PW distance. I'll put an image in soon but till then here's the link.

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2016060

Is it possible for the same signs to be PW off a milestone and milestones on, or milestones or PW for both? My legal advisor (father) says they are identical regardless and he wrote laws, so hoping he's right.

Imagemilepost2 by David Howard, on Flickr

Imagemilepost by David Howard, on Flickr

The linked ones are the same as these a few miles west in Whitchurch, but freestanding on the side of a house. Now if they had arrows they'd be directions as that's an official format I have a couple of, and on poles the newer PWs were made like this in the official font, but earlier ones were like this so what do we think?
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Re: Pre-Worboys or not?

Post by DavidNW9 »

Overlooking the beware of cats sign on top, the one below is a perfect PW format, but clearly better condition and has dodgy hole arrangements and mounted with gardening wire. Technically any correctly made sign counts as besides the age if no one can tell the difference then the age can't be determined anyway.

My main issue is the holes would normally be pole width apart, and although the condition makes it look recently made I can overlook that and it may have been expertly painted. I may well go there next week anyway and see what our jury think this time.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/stephenpoole/5550704926/
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Re: Pre-Worboys or not?

Post by DavidNW9 »

National Trust issued exact PW format, but the frame is not. It's cast metal and not sure if the frame needs to be standard to count, the age isn't important if they use the same moulding for the letters as they have here.

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Re: Pre-Worboys or not?

Post by Lockwood »

I've passed these before, whilst working. Managed to catch them today when I could pull over and had a camera.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/0wz ... C_0622.JPG
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/sxp ... C_0623.JPG

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Funnily enough, I had to wait for a double decker bus to pass before I could get those pictures
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Re: Pre-Worboys or not?

Post by DavidNW9 »

Those are very old, and before 1933 all weight limits appear to be issued by the owner of the bridge, railway, waterway or council so all counted. I've found quite a few myself and only the diamonds were a standard design.
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