Botched Traffic Signals

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boing_uk
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by boing_uk »

Not only that, but there is no actual "stick" with which to beat a highway authority that IS doing things wrong.

I suppose in theory the SoS could appoint a Traffic Director under TMA, but I cant for the life of me imaginethat ever actually happening. And of course the watering down of regulations even further doesnt help the mish-mash of dog poo engineering that is becoming ever more prevalent.

With a relaxing of regulation should come a tightening up of those permitted to actually put stuff out on the highway. At present, any old tom dick or harriet can start plopping stuff out on the road network with little or no fear of reprisal from the ultimate powers that be.
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by Bryn666 »

It's all devolution to the local authorities... :roll:
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

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ReissOmari..
urbanfox
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by urbanfox »

These went green before the conflicting set had turned red this morning.

I assume something has gone wrong, rather than it being intentional so fired an email off to Sandwell council once I got home.
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kit
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by kit »

There is this set near me

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.67016 ... 56!6m1!1e1

which for some reason only have secondary signals for straight on, not left, in each direction. This is fine in the other direction where both directions change together, but heading south left normally goes green before ahead (depending on the sensors).

This means if the person at the front has pulled close to the stop line they often sit there on green, much to the frustration of those behind.

They are also totally rubbish in the sense that the embedded sensors clearly work (change the sequence of the lights) but actually against your favour.
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ianwallis
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by ianwallis »

kit wrote:which for some reason only have secondary signals for straight on, not left, in each direction. This is fine in the other direction where both directions change together, but heading south left normally goes green before ahead (depending on the sensors).
Very poor design that. They are treating the left turn as a filter whereas it actually has a full traffic phase so should also have a secondary signal.
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by MotorwayGuy »

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.44123 ... 312!8i6656

The signals for ahead and right movements here sometimes have the red ball flash on for a split second whilst in the middle of the green phase.

They used to be phased so that the left turn went whilst the road to the left got its green phase, followed by the ahead and right movements, but now that no longer happens and the red time is ridiculously long.
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kit
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by kit »

ianwallis wrote:Very poor design that. They are treating the left turn as a filter whereas it actually has a full traffic phase so should also have a secondary signal.
Even if they put a filter on the secondary signal it would be an improvement although rather ugly solution.
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traffic-light-man
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by traffic-light-man »

kit wrote: Even if they put a filter on the secondary signal it would be an improvement although rather ugly solution.
There's a few of those 'ugly' situations in Knowsley. Here, here and here.

They all have a left turn 'filter' setup. The second example did have two lanterns mounted on the secondary position originally. For some reason this was changed to the current design before the installation was even switched on. That junction is also the only one that wasn't Mellors installed by Merseyside UTC as the other examples were.
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by UTCPaul »

urbanfox wrote:These went green before the conflicting set had turned red this morning.

I assume something has gone wrong, rather than it being intentional so fired an email off to Sandwell council once I got home.
Where were you sat to see both sets of signals?
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by boing_uk »

urbanfox wrote:These went green before the conflicting set had turned red this morning.
Doesnt happen. A conflict is a conflict and the signals would shut down. More likely is traffic red-running and is a common cause of "green conflict" complaints I get.

Generally speaking, it is not possible for a "fault" to cause a green conflict (although not entirely unheard of on early microprocessor controllers under certain specific conditions or where by necessity some safety critical timings are carried out by dummy phases).
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by Johnathan404 »

I was approaching this junction in Warrington recently.

The nearest signals were all red and the distant junction was green for going straight, red for turning right. At first glance I saw a few red lights joined by a red light with a green arrow next to it. "Cool", I thought, "a straight on filter arrow".

When I got closer I realised it was two separate junctions. Bad layout or was I having an off day?
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kit
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by kit »

Johnathan404 wrote:When I got closer I realised it was two separate junctions. Bad layout or was I having an off day?
It might usually get louvred covers but to be fair the wall is a pretty good visual guide that they are two separate junctions. I'm not a fan of the louvred covers unless needed as they must be a nightmare for lorry drivers.
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by DavidBrown »

Johnathan404 wrote:When I got closer I realised it was two separate junctions. Bad layout or was I having an off day?
Definitely a bad layout - looking at it from further back shows a complete mish-mash of reds and greens where the driver would be looking - the repeater for the first set on the far right will not be in a drivers direct line of sight.
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Gareth
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by Gareth »

Not a botch exactly but...

http://www.imageupload.co.uk/images/201 ... AEJuaG.jpg

They're really going to try and use a Mellor pedestrian lantern and try and pass it off as vintage American?
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Chris Bertram
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by Chris Bertram »

Gareth wrote:Not a botch exactly but...

http://www.imageupload.co.uk/images/201 ... AEJuaG.jpg

They're really going to try and use a Mellor pedestrian lantern and try and pass it off as vintage American?
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by dragonv480 »

Here's an interesting crossing "redesign" I came across on socail media just now from Hayle in Cornwall. They seem to have replaced a perfectly usable and modern ped crossing with new furniture, but whereas the old furnature was on poles on the edge of the footway, the new furniture seems to be in the middle of the footway causing problems for wheelchairs, pushchairs, mobility scooters and dare I say, the Friday night drunk!!!

https://www.facebook.com/maria.ellis.14 ... 2470736693
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kit
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by kit »

dragonv480 wrote:Here's an interesting crossing "redesign" I came across on socail media just now from Hayle in Cornwall. They seem to have replaced a perfectly usable and modern ped crossing with new furniture, but whereas the old furnature was on poles on the edge of the footway, the new furniture seems to be in the middle of the footway causing problems for wheelchairs, pushchairs, mobility scooters and dare I say, the Friday night drunk!!!

https://www.facebook.com/maria.ellis.14 ... 2470736693
Probably quite dangerous as well having something mainly black there. Oxfordshire decided to put a black traffic light controller box in the middle of a cycle lane here - they haven't moved it but they have at least put white edging on it.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.73746 ... 312!8i6656
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Johnathan404
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by Johnathan404 »

The nearest green signal on Merrion Road appears to be tied in to the two signals behind it. Only problem is the signal is placed significantly ahead of the stop line it's protecting!

All traffic always ignores the red signal and proceeds to the stop line, and it's hard to think of what (in practical terms) is wrong with this, other than it causing a bit of confusion for pedestrians.
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Re: Botched Traffic Signals

Post by RichieGraham »

This little traffic light setup here where the A3 meets the A306 is a bit strange.

It's quite a straightforward junction really - the A3 west/southbound here has four lanes; the rightenmost lane turns to the right down the A306 while the three leftenmost ones continue straight on. Traffic waiting to turn left has to wait until the traffic coming up the A3 is stopped at the lights. Coming up the other way it's a similar setup, but obviously with the left turn down the A306 being available whenever the mainline A3 is green.

What makes it strange is that the southbound A3 is controlled by a filter arrow pointing straight forward, leading to quite often drivers stopping at the red light. As the vast majority of traffic is straight-on, just seems odd that the lesser-used right turning traffic has the main lights. (What is worse at the moment is that the overhead light's filter arrow isn't working at the moment, so when approaching the junction there is no warning of what phase the lights are on - all you see is red!

----------

Another slightly odd one here. The light we can see in the middle on the right (with the blue pavement sign propped up behind it) is always on red, even when the one on the stop line is green. It's always confused me when I've driven past, as I tend to see that one rather than the one on the stop line; looking at it here though, I expect that it is a traffic light for the cycle lane and not the road. As I've never seen it in its non-red phases though, I've never seen if it's got the cycle symbol!

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Finally (while I'm at it!), not quite a botched traffic signal, just a bit ambigious - a bit further down here outside Lambeth North tube station, where the A23 meets the A302 and the B300, there's a 'no right turn' sign on the lights. It took a while for me to realise that the sign was prohibiting turning onto the southbound A302 (ie, past the station itself) and not onto the B300 - it would be a very difficult manouvre to make if somebody tried it, but I doubt that would stop anybody from attempting. Google Maps shows it a bit more obvious here, where it's a crossroads and the A23 becomes the B300, but the actual layout is more that the A23 and the A302 both lead onto the A302 NB, with the B300 coming off.
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