Some Southwark relics vanish
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Some Southwark relics vanish
In the last week, LB Southwark have started erecting new columns alongside the old ones on the section of A2199 they manage - Upper Croxted Road and on to College Hill.
Here's some of the ancient lights that will soon be gone. The sodium lantern is probably from the 1970s, and the bracket might be too, but I suspect the column itself is even older - they have very ornate pedestals at the bottom and are fluted almost all the way to the top.
The new lights are Southwark standard - straight, plain column with the tiniest bracket imaginable and an Urbis lantern. Not sure why they don't just go post-top because there's almost no outreach arm at all.
As expected, it looks like half a job, with any column newer than these ones remaining in situ. In particular, this casual replacement, which is much taller than anything else on the road, looks like it will be staying.
Edit: here is an example of a typical new light fitting in Southwark - this is almost certainly what's about to go up on Croxted Road.
Here's some of the ancient lights that will soon be gone. The sodium lantern is probably from the 1970s, and the bracket might be too, but I suspect the column itself is even older - they have very ornate pedestals at the bottom and are fluted almost all the way to the top.
The new lights are Southwark standard - straight, plain column with the tiniest bracket imaginable and an Urbis lantern. Not sure why they don't just go post-top because there's almost no outreach arm at all.
As expected, it looks like half a job, with any column newer than these ones remaining in situ. In particular, this casual replacement, which is much taller than anything else on the road, looks like it will be staying.
Edit: here is an example of a typical new light fitting in Southwark - this is almost certainly what's about to go up on Croxted Road.
Last edited by Chris5156 on Tue Jan 24, 2012 22:22, edited 1 time in total.
Chris
Roads.org.uk
Roads.org.uk
Re: Some Southwark relics vanish
The imagination has well and truly gone from street furniture design.
That column does look like a 1950s (if not older) design with a retrofitted bracket. This was quite common in places like Wigan too.
That column does look like a 1950s (if not older) design with a retrofitted bracket. This was quite common in places like Wigan too.
Bryn
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She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
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Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
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Re: Some Southwark relics vanish
No imagination and, in Southwark's case, no pride. I'm not a huge fan of Lambeth's PFI lighting, but if there's one thing to be said for it, it's consistency. Lambeth's roads are at least smartly uniform now. They look after the A2199 north of the A205, and crossing from one section to the other the difference is really noticeable. Lambeth's lights are all the same type, the same height, all neatly painted, all set the same distance back from the kerb. Even when Southwark have finished, their section of the same road will still be a jumble of old and new light columns.Bryn666 wrote:The imagination has well and truly gone from street furniture design.
Chris
Roads.org.uk
Roads.org.uk
- michael769
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Re: Some Southwark relics vanish
Barrhead still has a fewBryn666 wrote:
That column does look like a 1950s (if not older) design with a retrofitted bracket. This was quite common in places like Wigan too.
Minds are like parachutes - they only function when open
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Re: Some Southwark relics vanish
It seems that the opinion of many lighting engineers is as long as it lights the road that is all that matters. Indeed, as you say, it's a matter of civic pride.
I have constantly tried to argue for more thought in street furniture design but it gets the same "does anyone care?" response - it's just not a concern any more and I find it sad.
I have constantly tried to argue for more thought in street furniture design but it gets the same "does anyone care?" response - it's just not a concern any more and I find it sad.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: Some Southwark relics vanish
Lichfield is a good place to still see them.
How would you like your grade separations, Sir?
Big and complex.
Big and complex.
Re: Some Southwark relics vanish
This scheme is still underway - no real surprise that Southwark takes its sweet time over such things. However, a couple of odd points have become apparent.
First, there's two different types of column going up, and it actually looks like this is two separate schemes. College Hill has new vertical poles planted next to each existing light, but Upper Croxted Road has what appear to be all-in-one poles with arms welded into them, and wires hanging out of the end of the arm. Both types are the same height and I expect they'll have the same lanterns so I've no idea what this achieves.
Second, there's no sign of lights being replaced on the section of A2199 up College Road, which is a short section from College Hill up to Crystal Palace Parade. It's effectively the same road but the street name changes. I am starting to wonder if this is an administrative cock-up and somebody didn't specify any new lights for College Road!
First, there's two different types of column going up, and it actually looks like this is two separate schemes. College Hill has new vertical poles planted next to each existing light, but Upper Croxted Road has what appear to be all-in-one poles with arms welded into them, and wires hanging out of the end of the arm. Both types are the same height and I expect they'll have the same lanterns so I've no idea what this achieves.
Second, there's no sign of lights being replaced on the section of A2199 up College Road, which is a short section from College Hill up to Crystal Palace Parade. It's effectively the same road but the street name changes. I am starting to wonder if this is an administrative cock-up and somebody didn't specify any new lights for College Road!
Chris
Roads.org.uk
Roads.org.uk
Re: Some Southwark relics vanish
The scheme I started this thread to discuss - 14 months ago now - is still ongoing and seems to more or less have stalled completely now.
On Upper Croxted Road, there are still two or three old columns with orange sodium lamps that are not only in situ but still switched on, while several of the new lamps are still dark at night.
This scheme has been going for so long, in fact, that the StreetView link in my original post now shows an updated image of the column I was pointing out standing next to its replacement. Both are still there.
None of this is surprising; regular viewers will be familiar with my semi-regular rants about the astonishing incompetence of LB Southwark's highways department.
On Upper Croxted Road, there are still two or three old columns with orange sodium lamps that are not only in situ but still switched on, while several of the new lamps are still dark at night.
This scheme has been going for so long, in fact, that the StreetView link in my original post now shows an updated image of the column I was pointing out standing next to its replacement. Both are still there.
None of this is surprising; regular viewers will be familiar with my semi-regular rants about the astonishing incompetence of LB Southwark's highways department.
Chris
Roads.org.uk
Roads.org.uk
Re: Some Southwark relics vanish
That suggests the electric companies need to pull fingers out; a lighting scheme on Lady Lady Ramsden's street in Horwich has taken months and is still incomplete for the same reasons.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
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YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
- michael769
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Re: Some Southwark relics vanish
Issues with the power companies seem to be quite common.
A set of lights near me were out for a month while the council struggled to get them to fix a issue, in the end the council had to string overhead cables to light them while they waited. It was several months before they were finally removed again.
My council publishes a service standard for lights, 7 days for above ground faults, 14 for below ground, but 6 months if it involves the mains supply feed. That says it all!
A set of lights near me were out for a month while the council struggled to get them to fix a issue, in the end the council had to string overhead cables to light them while they waited. It was several months before they were finally removed again.
My council publishes a service standard for lights, 7 days for above ground faults, 14 for below ground, but 6 months if it involves the mains supply feed. That says it all!
Minds are like parachutes - they only function when open
Thomas Robert Dewar(1864-1930)
Take the pledge
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- poshbakerloo
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Re: Some Southwark relics vanish
Why don't they change the lantern? The new column looks very similar!
Re: Some Southwark relics vanish
Do any London boroughs still have streetlights converted from tram pylons? These did look rather grand in their day.
Re: Some Southwark relics vanish
Another update: the last remaining sodium lamp has now been switched off and the new light next to it (which is actually over two years old but was only turned on for the first time in the last week) in in use instead.
The old light is still there though - I'll be interested to see how long it takes to remove it!
I make that two years and two months to reach the point where all the new lights are in use
The old light is still there though - I'll be interested to see how long it takes to remove it!
I make that two years and two months to reach the point where all the new lights are in use
Chris
Roads.org.uk
Roads.org.uk
Re: Some Southwark relics vanish
Don't get me started!ChrisH wrote:Par for the course for LB Southwark in my experience...
Chris
Roads.org.uk
Roads.org.uk
Re: Some Southwark relics vanish
I think that they are all long gone now. There are some poles surviving, probably because they are standing on railway land, on Ferry Lane by Tottenham Hale station but they don't have lights attached any more.Do any London boroughs still have streetlights converted from tram pylons? These did look rather grand in their day.
Re: Some Southwark relics vanish
I've moved away from the area now, but went down Croxted Road this afternoon, which gives me the opportunity to offer another update on this long-running saga.Chris5156 wrote:Another update: the last remaining sodium lamp has now been switched off and the new light next to it (which is actually over two years old but was only turned on for the first time in the last week) in in use instead.
The old light is still there though - I'll be interested to see how long it takes to remove it!
I make that two years and two months to reach the point where all the new lights are in use
That last old lamp is still standing, four years after it was switched off, and six years after its replacement was erected next to it. No sign of it being taken down yet!
Chris
Roads.org.uk
Roads.org.uk
Re: Some Southwark relics vanish
These have been standing awaiting removal in Tottington for about 20 years now.
https://goo.gl/maps/XVW7JroHnk32
https://goo.gl/maps/CWqiNLP86Y62
https://goo.gl/maps/XVW7JroHnk32
https://goo.gl/maps/CWqiNLP86Y62
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck