Unusual Street Lighting on Motorways Past and Present

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FleetlinePhil
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Re: Unusual Street Lighting on Motorways Past and Present

Post by FleetlinePhil »

This seems like the appropriate place to ask the question that caused me to stumble onto SABRE a couple of years ago.
As a teenager living on the SW side of Manchester in the 1970's-80's, I recall there being some dramatic high-mast lighting installed at junctions on the newly opened M56. I suspect this was around the Runcorn New Town section, but possibly closer to Manchester as well. This was first observed on family days out to Chester and North Wales, and later on my own early motoring forays.
I am curious as to the make and model, which had a large circular head with six (I think) lanterns, each of which had a curved fairing above. I have had a look at some likely spots on GSV, but I assume they have all been replaced by now (it is not an area I have driven through recently). Also, were these used elsewhere on the motorway network, or were these junctions in Cheshire unique?
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Re: Unusual Street Lighting on Motorways Past and Present

Post by Robert Kilcoyne »

FleetlinePhil wrote: As a teenager living on the SW side of Manchester in the 1970's-80's, I recall there being some dramatic high-mast lighting installed at junctions on the newly opened M56. I suspect this was around the Runcorn New Town section, but possibly closer to Manchester as well. This was first observed on family days out to Chester and North Wales, and later on my own early motoring forays.
I am curious as to the make and model, which had a large circular head with six (I think) lanterns, each of which had a curved fairing above. I have had a look at some likely spots on GSV, but I assume they have all been replaced by now (it is not an area I have driven through recently). Also, were these used elsewhere on the motorway network, or were these junctions in Cheshire unique?
The high mast lighting was not on the M56 itself, but I think that I know the area of which you are thinking. As you travelled eastwards on the M56 from Chester towards the Runcorn exit at Junction 12 you could see lots of high mast lights above the chemical works close to the Weston Point Expressway. These high mast lights were installed on the A533 and A557 dual carriageways within the New Town, but the A557 high mast lights did not extend to Junction 12 itself (although you could clearly see the columns from a distance).

I seem to remember that the original lanterns were similar to those installed at Birch Services and also as originally installed on the M8 in Glasgow between Charing Cross and Baillieston.
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Re: Unusual Street Lighting on Motorways Past and Present

Post by FleetlinePhil »

Robert Kilcoyne wrote:
FleetlinePhil wrote: As a teenager living on the SW side of Manchester in the 1970's-80's, I recall there being some dramatic high-mast lighting installed at junctions on the newly opened M56. I suspect this was around the Runcorn New Town section, but possibly closer to Manchester as well. This was first observed on family days out to Chester and North Wales, and later on my own early motoring forays.
I am curious as to the make and model, which had a large circular head with six (I think) lanterns, each of which had a curved fairing above. I have had a look at some likely spots on GSV, but I assume they have all been replaced by now (it is not an area I have driven through recently). Also, were these used elsewhere on the motorway network, or were these junctions in Cheshire unique?
The high mast lighting was not on the M56 itself, but I think that I know the area of which you are thinking. As you travelled eastwards on the M56 from Chester towards the Runcorn exit at Junction 12 you could see lots of high mast lights above the chemical works close to the Weston Point Expressway. These high mast lights were installed on the A533 and A557 dual carriageways within the New Town, but the A557 high mast lights did not extend to Junction 12 itself (although you could clearly see the columns from a distance).

I seem to remember that the original lanterns were similar to those installed at Birch Services and also as originally installed on the M8 in Glasgow between Charing Cross and Baillieston.
Thanks for that - I had not intended to suggest they lit the motorway itself, but my recollection of them being at large roundabouts had made me assume they were present at junctions with the M56. I seem to remember doing some pre-test driving supervised by my Dad in the area one evening, perhaps we got further into Runcorn than I had remembered!
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Re: Unusual Street Lighting on Motorways Past and Present

Post by Bryn666 »

They were CU Phosco high mast lanterns, and most have now vanished from Runcorn in favour of conventional columns.

There are different views towards high mast lighting - Newcastle recently replaced all the lighting on the A167(M) with high masts, whereas other places are dropping theirs and putting in regular columns.

The M8 using high masts all the way through Glasgow is an unusual installation. The closest we have to that in Manchester is the A6 through Pendleton.
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Re: Unusual Street Lighting on Motorways Past and Present

Post by Chris5156 »

Bryn666 wrote:There are different views towards high mast lighting - Newcastle recently replaced all the lighting on the A167(M) with high masts, whereas other places are dropping theirs and putting in regular columns.
Central Leeds had a forest of high mast lights when I was a kid, but most are now gone. They were at a couple of junctions on the Inner Ring Road, strewn around all the big messy signalised junctions like Sheepscar and Woodpecker Interchange, and the M621 had a good cluster of them. I think they are generally falling out of favour because they're ugly and they can sometimes be an eyesore for miles.
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Re: Unusual Street Lighting on Motorways Past and Present

Post by Robert Kilcoyne »

Chris5156 wrote:
Bryn666 wrote:There are different views towards high mast lighting - Newcastle recently replaced all the lighting on the A167(M) with high masts, whereas other places are dropping theirs and putting in regular columns.
Central Leeds had a forest of high mast lights when I was a kid, but most are now gone. They were at a couple of junctions on the Inner Ring Road, strewn around all the big messy signalised junctions like Sheepscar and Woodpecker Interchange, and the M621 had a good cluster of them. I think they are generally falling out of favour because they're ugly and they can sometimes be an eyesore for miles.
The high mast lighting on the M621 between Junctions 1 and 5 is still in place. I remember reading in the Motorway Archive that Leeds City Council did not want conventional lighting columns installed on the then M1 extension in the early 1970's as it did not want to create a wall of light around South Leeds and that the Ministry of Transport agreed to provide partial funding towards the cost of installing high mast lighting with the City Council paying for the remainder of the cost.
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Re: Unusual Street Lighting on Motorways Past and Present

Post by FleetlinePhil »

Bryn666 wrote:They were CU Phosco high mast lanterns, and most have now vanished from Runcorn in favour of conventional columns.
Thanks for the information, much appreciated. I recall seeing them on one drizzly dark evening, and whilst the huge cones of illuminated rain were certainly impressive (perhaps even distracting), I wasn't convinced the illumination at road level was any better than normal columns would have been.
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Re: Unusual Street Lighting on Motorways Past and Present

Post by nowster »

There were definitely high mast lights at the eastern end of the M48 Severn Bridge when SABRE visited a few years ago.
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Re: Unusual Street Lighting on Motorways Past and Present

Post by Robert Kilcoyne »

nowster wrote:There were definitely high mast lights at the eastern end of the M48 Severn Bridge when SABRE visited a few years ago.
The high mast columns on the Welsh side of the bridge were still there last May:-
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.62037 ... 6656?hl=en
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Re: Unusual Street Lighting on Motorways Past and Present

Post by Chris5156 »

Were there ever any examples of concrete lighting columns on motorways? I'm aware of a couple of motorway junctions in West Yorkshire where the roundabout had concrete columns, but not the mainline or sliproads. (The answer I'm expecting is "no", but you never know.)
Robert Kilcoyne wrote:
nowster wrote:There were definitely high mast lights at the eastern end of the M48 Severn Bridge when SABRE visited a few years ago.
The high mast columns on the Welsh side of the bridge were still there last May:-
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.62037 ... 6656?hl=en
The people living in those houses backing on to the motorway must be able to sit out in the back garden and read a book at night - the high masts seem to light up the housing estate as much as the motorway.
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Re: Unusual Street Lighting on Motorways Past and Present

Post by Bryn666 »

Chris5156 wrote:Were there ever any examples of concrete lighting columns on motorways? I'm aware of a couple of motorway junctions in West Yorkshire where the roundabout had concrete columns, but not the mainline or sliproads. (The answer I'm expecting is "no", but you never know.
The original Chiswick Flyover had concrete columns. They were sleeved to have the GEC 'railway platform' lights the rest of the elevated M4 had in the mid 1960s.
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Re: Unusual Street Lighting on Motorways Past and Present

Post by Norfolktolancashire »

Bryn666 wrote:They were CU Phosco high mast lanterns, and most have now vanished from Runcorn in favour of conventional columns.

There are different views towards high mast lighting - Newcastle recently replaced all the lighting on the A167(M) with high masts, whereas other places are dropping theirs and putting in regular columns.

The M8 using high masts all the way through Glasgow is an unusual installation. The closest we have to that in Manchester is the A6 through Pendleton.
Passed through this junction on the M74 on New Years Eve, impressive high mast lighting here!

http://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.780908 ... 312!8i6656
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Re: Unusual Street Lighting on Motorways Past and Present

Post by Robert Kilcoyne »

Norfolktolancashire wrote: Passed through this junction on the M74 on New Years Eve, impressive high mast lighting here!

http://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.780908 ... 312!8i6656
I think that the majority of the columns at Junction 6 are the original installations from the late 1960's.

It is interesting that the M74 north of this junction up to Junction 4 (M73 exit) used to have mainline carriageway lighting (grey ZX3's) but when the M74 was widened and the Raith interchange rebuilt recently, the whole of the mainline lighting between Junctions 4 and 6 was removed and the motorway is now unlit, with the exception of some verge mounted lighting around Junction 5. I think that this may be the only instance where this has happened on a motorway in Scotland, although it has happened of course on the M1 north of Luton.
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Re: Unusual Street Lighting on Motorways Past and Present

Post by scott125 »

Robert Kilcoyne wrote:
Norfolktolancashire wrote: Passed through this junction on the M74 on New Years Eve, impressive high mast lighting here!

http://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.780908 ... 312!8i6656
I think that the majority of the columns at Junction 6 are the original installations from the late 1960's.

It is interesting that the M74 north of this junction up to Junction 4 (M73 exit) used to have mainline carriageway lighting (grey ZX3's) but when the M74 was widened and the Raith interchange rebuilt recently, the whole of the mainline lighting between Junctions 4 and 6 was removed and the motorway is now unlit, with the exception of some verge mounted lighting around Junction 5. I think that this may be the only instance where this has happened on a motorway in Scotland, although it has happened of course on the M1 north of Luton.
I found it strange they never replaced the lighting , i thought they would of put the same LEDs and columns that are on the new bit of M8 further up the M74 . Scotlands a bit different to motorway lighting , there very few in the central reservation i can think of the Kingston Bridge and that bit of M74 thats now gone . Through Glasgow its on the really tall masts or on the sides .
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Re: Unusual Street Lighting on Motorways Past and Present

Post by Jonathan24 »

Apologies for resurrecting this thread but over the last few months, I've really become aware of how much of the high mast lighting in Northern Ireland is being removed, in favour of conventional columns and lanterns. For example:

Larne Road Roundabout - this was replaced quite a number of years ago
Seven Towers Roundabout - again, removed quite a number of years ago
Dunsilly Roundabout - removed in the last few months
Rathbeg Roundabout - in process of being removed
Carn Road Roundabout - shortly to be removed, even though it was already retrofitted with LEDs

The list goes on...

Perhaps the most significant stretch of high mast lighting we have left is on the M2 and I suspect that the only reason for that is because the PFI contract didn't specify the replacement of this street lighting or the conversion to LED (has about another 15 years to run).

Is the same thing happening across the rest of the UK, such that high mast lighting is now a rarity?
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Re: Unusual Street Lighting on Motorways Past and Present

Post by Patrick Harper »

This stock photo seems to show the M1 being extensively rebuilt north of J2 in 1999. Some of the old 60s columns can be seen in the distance.
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Re: Unusual Street Lighting on Motorways Past and Present

Post by Brenley Corner »

Not a motorway, but high mast lighting still present for the Cooper Dean flyover and approaches on the A338 Wessex Way Bournemouth: Streetview (visible forward and behind). It was converted to LED in the Bournemouth programme of LED conversion but was right at the end of it, so seems to be remaining in place. The roundabout underneath has normal street lighting.

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Re: Unusual Street Lighting on Motorways Past and Present

Post by lexynoise »

scott125 wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2018 18:25 Scotlands a bit different to motorway lighting , there very few in the central reservation i can think of the Kingston Bridge and that bit of M74 thats now gone . Through Glasgow its on the really tall masts or on the sides .
Scotland really doesn’t like central reservation lighting for some reason. Throughout the 90s and 00s, most of it was removed and replaced with columns at both edges of the road.

This applies to motorways and in-town dual carriageways, even when it wasn’t really practical to do so. At the top end of the M77, there used to be Thorn Alpha 3s mounted on twin brackets in the central reservation. They couldn’t install columns on the southbound carriageway because of a concrete retaining wall, so now the lights on the northbound carriageway light the entire road.

There’s a few survivors like the Kingston Bridge and Clyde Expressway, but not much.

The tide seems to be turning though. Part of the Kingsway in Dundee is having carriageway edge lighting replaced with central reservation lighting.
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Re: Unusual Street Lighting on Motorways Past and Present

Post by Gareth »

I think lighting columns on the sides of carriageway is preferred now because it tends to be easier to access for maintenance. On the downside, you need double the number of columns.
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Re: Unusual Street Lighting on Motorways Past and Present

Post by Bryn666 »

Chris5156 wrote: Fri Jan 19, 2018 14:54 Were there ever any examples of concrete lighting columns on motorways? I'm aware of a couple of motorway junctions in West Yorkshire where the roundabout had concrete columns, but not the mainline or sliproads. (The answer I'm expecting is "no", but you never know.)
Robert Kilcoyne wrote:
nowster wrote:There were definitely high mast lights at the eastern end of the M48 Severn Bridge when SABRE visited a few years ago.
The high mast columns on the Welsh side of the bridge were still there last May:-
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.62037 ... 6656?hl=en
The people living in those houses backing on to the motorway must be able to sit out in the back garden and read a book at night - the high masts seem to light up the housing estate as much as the motorway.
Turns out the M61 had concrete columns on the slip roads at J4 before being replaced by conventional steel.
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