Red X means don’t drive in that lane
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Red X means don’t drive in that lane
I saw this wording on the VMS on the M4 yesterday between j8/9 both eastbound and westbound and wonder why it was shown given this is not ALR or a smart motorway.
Then I discovered this HA press release today.
It is a campaign being launched by the HA as a survey has found out 1 in 3 drivers do not know what the sign means and 1 in 12 believe it means stop.
This adds to my concerns over ALR, Hard Shoulder running etc that there are so many variations and if the travelling public are so naïve they do not know what the VMS signs mean especially on ALR, it could lead to an increase in accidents.
Then I discovered this HA press release today.
It is a campaign being launched by the HA as a survey has found out 1 in 3 drivers do not know what the sign means and 1 in 12 believe it means stop.
This adds to my concerns over ALR, Hard Shoulder running etc that there are so many variations and if the travelling public are so naïve they do not know what the VMS signs mean especially on ALR, it could lead to an increase in accidents.
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Re: Red X means don’t drive in that lane
Theyve been running similar ads on local radio here for a few weeks now - problem is it is a softly-softly advert. To my mind it should be "The Red X is punishable with a £60 fine and three points, same as running a red light. You're given plenty of warning your lane will be closing so keep your eyes open, idiots. Obey the signs or face the fines".
Re: Red X means don’t drive in that lane
I wonder if, like any road sign, if it was more commonly used people would be more likely to understand it's meaning. Most of the time I've seen it used is during overnight roadworks. I can't remember seeing it used during the day except for total motorway closures - hence perhaps the 1 in 12 who think the whole road is closed.
If it was used for all roadworks 24/7 where gantries are installed, with white arrows on the approach to roadworks, people are more likely to understand it's meaning.
If it was used for all roadworks 24/7 where gantries are installed, with white arrows on the approach to roadworks, people are more likely to understand it's meaning.
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- Mark Hewitt
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Re: Red X means don’t drive in that lane
One of the problems with longer-term roadworks is that the gantries can't be used as the power & communication ducts are being moved/worked on etc, which is why you see mobile VMS being used instead.kit wrote:I wonder if, like any road sign, if it was more commonly used people would be more likely to understand it's meaning. Most of the time I've seen it used is during overnight roadworks. I can't remember seeing it used during the day except for total motorway closures - hence perhaps the 1 in 12 who think the whole road is closed.
If it was used for all roadworks 24/7 where gantries are installed, with white arrows on the approach to roadworks, people are more likely to understand it's meaning.
Thanks to the rollout of Smart Motorways I think the Red X is being used a lot more than previously, especially in daytime. However they use it passively, i.e. without wig-wags, so people don't notice it as much. Coming out of Birmingham on the M6 yesterday I passed three numpties, one behind the other, using the hard shoulder when it wasn't in use. I've also heard the radio ads, Boing's suggestion would be very effective!
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Re: Red X means don’t drive in that lane
Well, it does if they're showing across all lanes. Luckily that's a rare case though - at least I've never seen it, though I've come across plenty of red Xs above a single or two lanes.1 in 12 believe it means stop
The highway code (courtesy of gov.uk) isn't as clear as it could be:
Unless I've missed some other rule, this doesn't actually describe a red X on its own as you'd see on a closed hard shoulder in a smart motorway section.(258) Red flashing lights. If red lights on the overhead signals flash above your lane and a red ‘X’ is showing, you MUST NOT go beyond the signal in that lane. If red lights flash on a signal in the central reservation or at the side of the road, you MUST NOT go beyond the signal in any lane.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 38
EDIT: Also, having just viewed the video at the link - is there a good reason why the newer signals display red Xs instead of wickets (perhaps with a red corssbar)? From my experience, wicket signs, whether actual signs or on MS1 signals, seem to be quite well understood. It's almost as if they've introduced the red X on a MS4 without telling anyone. It's not even in Know Your Traffic Signs!
Last edited by Bristol on Thu Feb 12, 2015 20:20, edited 1 time in total.
- Mark Hewitt
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Re: Red X means don’t drive in that lane
I wonder if there is all X how many would actually come to a complete stop on the motorway? I would be reluctant both because someone may run into me and the high likelihood of it being a mistake.
Re: Red X means don’t drive in that lane
I think the authorities need to put as much effort into ensuring that they are never used over empty lanes without some sort of explanation. We have probably all seen long sections of lanes (often several) closed for no obvious reason. There might well be a reason but they need to put up some sort of explanation.
JMB
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"Give me the third best technology. The second best won't be ready in time. The best will never be ready." Robert Watson-Watt
Fort William
http://www.mbriscoe.me.uk
"Give me the third best technology. The second best won't be ready in time. The best will never be ready." Robert Watson-Watt
Re: Red X means don’t drive in that lane
I am sure that some years ago the explanation of them was written in a way that could be interpreted as meaning 'stop', perhaps because they talked of motorway closures.Bristol wrote:Well, it does if they're showing across all lanes. Luckily that's a rare case though - at least I've never seen it, though I've come across plenty of red Xs above a single or two lanes.1 in 12 believe it means stop
The highway code (courtesy of gov.uk) isn't as clear as it could be:
Unless I've missed some other rule, this doesn't actually describe a red X on its own as you'd see on a closed hard shoulder in a smart motorway section.(258) Red flashing lights. If red lights on the overhead signals flash above your lane and a red ‘X’ is showing, you MUST NOT go beyond the signal in that lane. If red lights flash on a signal in the central reservation or at the side of the road, you MUST NOT go beyond the signal in any lane.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 38
JMB
Fort William
http://www.mbriscoe.me.uk
"Give me the third best technology. The second best won't be ready in time. The best will never be ready." Robert Watson-Watt
Fort William
http://www.mbriscoe.me.uk
"Give me the third best technology. The second best won't be ready in time. The best will never be ready." Robert Watson-Watt
Re: Red X means don’t drive in that lane
Actually, rule 270 still says (emphasis mine):J--M--B wrote: I am sure that some years ago the explanation of them was written in a way that could be interpreted as meaning 'stop', perhaps because they talked of motorway closures.
(270) STOPPING. You MUST NOT stop on the carriageway, hard shoulder, slip road, central reservation or verge except in an emergency, or when told to do so by the police, HA traffic officers in uniform, an emergency sign or by flashing red light signals. Do not stop on the hard shoulder to either make or receive mobile phone calls.
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Re: Red X means don’t drive in that lane
Traffic Scotland regularly display "red x is mandatory" on gantry VMS displays in Glasgow. So they're assuming enough people know what it means, but just need reminding of its legal status.
But anyone driving regularly in Glasgow will have probably seen plenty of red Xs, both for incidents and whenever there is any physical traffic management in place.
But anyone driving regularly in Glasgow will have probably seen plenty of red Xs, both for incidents and whenever there is any physical traffic management in place.
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Re: Red X means don’t drive in that lane
Rule 269 covers hard shoulders and the signals that can be displayed above them.Bristol wrote:Unless I've missed some other rule, this doesn't actually describe a red X on its own as you'd see on a closed hard shoulder in a smart motorway section.
Red X is a mandatory signal, a T lane closed signal (whether in a single colour, or with a red crossbar) is just a warning.EDIT: Also, having just viewed the video at the link - is there a good reason why the newer signals display red Xs instead of wickets (perhaps with a red corssbar)? From my experience, wicket signs, whether actual signs or on MS1 signals, seem to be quite well understood. It's almost as if they've introduced the red X on a MS4 without telling anyone. It's not even in Know Your Traffic Signs!
Re: Red X means don’t drive in that lane
On my journeys round the M25 at Christmas, I saw red Xs used twice – once on a slow-moving stretch in lane 4, for about a mile or two, and then the lane opened up again, with no reason evident for it being closed. (I'm not saying there hadn't been a reason earlier, but if there was it was long cleared away). Bloody annoying to see drivers sailing through the closed lane and getting away with it.J--M--B wrote:I think the authorities need to put as much effort into ensuring that they are never used over empty lanes without some sort of explanation. We have probably all seen long sections of lanes (often several) closed for no obvious reason. There might well be a reason but they need to put up some sort of explanation.
The other time had lanes 1 and 2 closed, because of a minor accident that was over on the left, which I think was also mentioned on the dot matrix signs, the majority of drivers did get into lanes 3 and 4, only a handful passed the Xs and most of them only by a short distance before moving right.
Given that these Xs are displayed on VSL gantries that have cameras on, I don't understand why those cameras don't photograph drivers who have illegally passed them, and send them a ticket.
Re: Red X means don’t drive in that lane
We've had those Red Xs on the Aston Expressway for around 40 years, anyone who doesn't know what they mean should have their licence shredded immediately.
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Formerly known as Roverman
Still driving a British built car, made in a former Rover factory......
Re: Red X means don’t drive in that lane
The biggest issue I've seen is people using the hard shoulder when nothing is shown on the gantries.
'Red X means lane is closed' above a hard shoulder with no red X on isn't going to make that any better. Although generally speaking when something is in trouble on the H/S they usually stick the flashing reds on (and make the other three lanes 40 for no particular reason).
'Red X means lane is closed' above a hard shoulder with no red X on isn't going to make that any better. Although generally speaking when something is in trouble on the H/S they usually stick the flashing reds on (and make the other three lanes 40 for no particular reason).
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Re: Red X means don’t drive in that lane
So, if I'm driving along, and encounter a red X in my lane, do I either:
- Stop dead, and run the risk of being rear-ended, or
- Continue driving until it is safe to merge into the adjacent lane, which is technically illegal?
“The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.” – Robert A. Heinlein
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Re: Red X means don’t drive in that lane
Funny this topic is posted here today because I've heard the campaign a lot on the radio and seen the VMS signs, however tonight with two lane closures on the M6 just past Hilton services, there were two gantries in use with keep left arrows (including a new gantry in the 'not yet opened but it may as well be' section) followed by two sets of Red X's. And I counted around 20 vehicles pass the Red Xs and slam there brakes on when they realised the lanes were closed. There was even roadwork signs from 800yards to warn of the closure.
I then get one women who decides to try and side-swipe me at the lane closure point by cutting in but as she ignored all the warning signs I ignored her and made her wait. She wasn't happy hooting and flashing and swearing, but in this case she had enough warning.
The 'Red X means lane closed' sign wasn't displaying on the VMS when ideally it should have been. Seen too many near misses on this stretch lately. I've seen various lorries and cars using the hard shoulder when not in use. Originally when the Smart Motorway began on the M42, they would use the 'X' without the flashing lights and put a message about 'Hard shoulder for emergency use only'. Sometimes I see that used now on the M6 but rarely. The culprit for hard shoulder use is between J8 and J9 northbound but I'm guessing that is because it is fairly short and people seem to think they will get away with it.
Ideally the Red X lanes should flash and give a fine. Quite why this has not been set up remains to be seen.
I then get one women who decides to try and side-swipe me at the lane closure point by cutting in but as she ignored all the warning signs I ignored her and made her wait. She wasn't happy hooting and flashing and swearing, but in this case she had enough warning.
The 'Red X means lane closed' sign wasn't displaying on the VMS when ideally it should have been. Seen too many near misses on this stretch lately. I've seen various lorries and cars using the hard shoulder when not in use. Originally when the Smart Motorway began on the M42, they would use the 'X' without the flashing lights and put a message about 'Hard shoulder for emergency use only'. Sometimes I see that used now on the M6 but rarely. The culprit for hard shoulder use is between J8 and J9 northbound but I'm guessing that is because it is fairly short and people seem to think they will get away with it.
Ideally the Red X lanes should flash and give a fine. Quite why this has not been set up remains to be seen.
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Re: Red X means don’t drive in that lane
You should have been following the directions on the previous signals to either move left or right or to leave at the exit, so you would have changed course before encountering the X above the lane.PeterA5145 wrote:So, if I'm driving along, and encounter a red X in my lane, do I either:
- Stop dead, and run the risk of being rear-ended, or
- Continue driving until it is safe to merge into the adjacent lane, which is technically illegal?
Re: Red X means don’t drive in that lane
And if he happened to pass through when the signals were being set up?Glen wrote: You should have been following the directions on the previous signals to either move left or right or to leave at the exit, so you would have changed course before encountering the X above the lane.
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Re: Red X means don’t drive in that lane
But if I hadn't, which of the two options should I take?Glen wrote:You should have been following the directions on the previous signals to either move left or right or to leave at the exit, so you would have changed course before encountering the X above the lane.PeterA5145 wrote:So, if I'm driving along, and encounter a red X in my lane, do I either:
- Stop dead, and run the risk of being rear-ended, or
- Continue driving until it is safe to merge into the adjacent lane, which is technically illegal?
“The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.” – Robert A. Heinlein