Red X means don’t drive in that lane

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RichardA35
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Re: Red X means don’t drive in that lane

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To the layman, tarmac and asphalt are the same material. What were the differences?
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Re: RE: Re: Red X means don’t drive in that lane

Post by nowster »

RichardA35 wrote:To the layman, tarmac and asphalt are the same material. What were the differences?
One's a trademark?
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Re: Red X means don’t drive in that lane

Post by darkcape »

Tarmac is an old brand name for asphalt, now it is just the name of a company.
On the highway concrete has a white/light grey appearance compared to asphalt.
Here is a maintenance lay by made from grasscrete which is a concrete grid with soil/grass in-between.

Here is an asphalt ERA on the M1
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Johnathan404
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Re: Red X means don’t drive in that lane

Post by Johnathan404 »

I have just been sat on the M25 and can give you a good indication of red x compliance.

Between Cobham services and J10, the gantries said:

40 | LEFT | LEFT | LEFT

40 | X | X | X

40 | X | X | X

...prior to a full carriageway closure.

I was in the lane marked '40'. Between the three gantries, which is about a mile, it took me 90 minutes to travel. This is to give you an idea how long I was stationary for.

During all that time I was in lane one, there was a constant stream of traffic in lanes two, three and four. For 90 minutes, the only gaps were when somebody changed lanes and everybody had to brake.

I'd hazard a guess that lane two was doing barely 5mph, lane three was doing 30mph and lane four was doing 60mph. All while the red x's happily flashed away. Taxis and lorries made up a significant portion of them.

Whether it would have been better to use the red x's or let the cones do the job is debateable, but it's pretty clear just how well-respected they are.

By far the most irritating were those who started out in lane one, cut across to lane four, and then cut back when they met the cones.
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Re: Red X means don’t drive in that lane

Post by AndyB »

Imagine the fun if a dozen police officers were to walk in hi-vis from the cones to the third gantry after an hour and issue tickets to everybody who drove through the third gantry a minute after the red Xs showed? :twisted:
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Re: Red X means don’t drive in that lane

Post by Big L »

AndyB wrote:Imagine the fun if a dozen police officers were to walk in hi-vis from the cones to the third gantry after an hour and issue tickets to everybody who drove through the third gantry a minute after the red Xs showed? :twisted:
I think you meant :pig:

But I would love to see it happen.
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Re: Red X means don’t drive in that lane

Post by Johnathan404 »

With my lane being virtually stationary, I did imagine somebody putting on a hi vis jacket and writing down registration numbers.

It's the type-of thing braver people do on YouTube.
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Re: Red X means don’t drive in that lane

Post by kit »

Johnathan404 wrote:I have just been sat on the M25 and can give you a good indication of red x compliance.
Happened to me as well on the M40, very annoying. If the HE took this "red X" thing seriously they should have red light cameras enforcing it, they are much simpler than speed cameras so shouldn't be too expensive to install.
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Re: Red X means don’t drive in that lane

Post by AndyB »

There is a problem in that in emergency situations, the red Xs are displayed after motorists have legally passed the signal, or at least the last point at which they could reasonably have seen the signal. Even if speed cameras could be certified for detecting speeds exceeding 0 miles per hour in the same way as red light cameras, a manual check would be required to ensure that the front row of cars detected by a gantry-mounted CCTV camera facing approaching traffic were not penalised - and even then I would suggest that only the second gantry with red Xes and beyond could reasonably carry out red light enforcement for benefit of the doubt reasons.

Believe me, though, I desperately wish that we could see active enforcement of VSL and red Xs. The immunity that many drivers know they have makes life pretty dangerous for the law-abiding.
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Re: Red X means don’t drive in that lane

Post by Reading »

Has made it to the BBC today

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38563380
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Re: Red X means don’t drive in that lane

Post by Pendlemac »

AndyB wrote:There is a problem in that in emergency situations, the red Xs are displayed after motorists have legally passed the signal, or at least the last point at which they could reasonably have seen the signal. Even if speed cameras could be certified for detecting speeds exceeding 0 miles per hour in the same way as red light cameras, a manual check would be required to ensure that the front row of cars detected by a gantry-mounted CCTV camera facing approaching traffic were not penalised - and even then I would suggest that only the second gantry with red Xes and beyond could reasonably carry out red light enforcement for benefit of the doubt reasons.

Believe me, though, I desperately wish that we could see active enforcement of VSL and red Xs. The immunity that many drivers know they have makes life pretty dangerous for the law-abiding.

There was talk a few years ago that the 'Red X' function of the VSL-enforcement cameras was being enabled on some variable speed sections of the motorway. The cameras are on the back of the gantry and so all that is required is a small delay to allow for those that are too close to change lanes when the X appears.

Regarding certification, the camera control software merely has to detect the presence of a vehicle, its speed is irrelevent. Fixed cameras that pick up vehicles on the hard shoulder are in use on the M42 scheme and probably others.
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Re: Red X means don’t drive in that lane

Post by Helvellyn »

Johnathan404 wrote: I was in the lane marked '40'. Between the three gantries, which is about a mile, it took me 90 minutes to travel. This is to give you an idea how long I was stationary for.
Those people queue jumping through the crosses will be at least partially responsible for your wait.
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Re: Red X means don’t drive in that lane

Post by Helvellyn »

AndyB wrote:There is a problem in that in emergency situations, the red Xs are displayed after motorists have legally passed the signal, or at least the last point at which they could reasonably have seen the signal. Even if speed cameras could be certified for detecting speeds exceeding 0 miles per hour in the same way as red light cameras, a manual check would be required to ensure that the front row of cars detected by a gantry-mounted CCTV camera facing approaching traffic were not penalised - and even then I would suggest that only the second gantry with red Xes and beyond could reasonably carry out red light enforcement for benefit of the doubt reasons.
You just need a reasonable delay between the crosses going up and starting to penalise people. Perhaps it could be done manually. If the stretch is covered by CCTV anyway someone should be able to decide that the next reds have been seen and people would've moved over if they could.
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Re: Red X means don’t drive in that lane

Post by AndyB »

I was thinking of the scenario where traffic comes to a halt before the red Xs are switched on
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Re: Red X means don’t drive in that lane

Post by Helvellyn »

AndyB wrote:I was thinking of the scenario where traffic comes to a halt before the red Xs are switched on
Good point, but manual activation of any automatic punsihment once everyone is clear (if they're able to at all) should get around that. Even a fully automated system (not that I'm ever a fan of those) might work if it only kicks in once it's seen traffic moving in a closed lane above a certain speed, or no traffic for a sufficient time.
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Re: Red X means don’t drive in that lane

Post by WHBM »

AndyB wrote:I was thinking of the scenario where traffic comes to a halt before the red Xs are switched on
This is pretty much the norm on M25 J23-27, traffic in all lanes stopped/creeping, and then X comes on for one, occasionally two, lanes.

M4 elevated section is worse. We discussed a while ago that for handling a breakdown there, although it may be reported/seen on CCTV, the procedure at the control room is not to switch to Red X until the police vehicle arrives, and not to switch it off again until the police vehicle reports "clear" after they have propelled the breakdown well off the motorway.
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Re: Red X means don’t drive in that lane

Post by darkcape »

Reading wrote:Has made it to the BBC today

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38563380
Referring to people not being used to "new rules". How long has red x been in the highway code? When did the M42 Active Traffic Management open??
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Re: Red X means don’t drive in that lane

Post by Ruperts Trooper »

darkcape wrote:
Reading wrote:Has made it to the BBC today

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38563380
Referring to people not being used to "new rules". How long has red x been in the highway code? When did the M42 Active Traffic Management open??
The M42 trial and subsequent acceptance is only switched on during congestion, predominantly "rush hours", so the drivers are predominantly regulars - the rest of the time it's a normal 3-lane motorway with 70 mph limit.

The wider use of active management means that more drivers unfamiliar with a section of motorway will use them.

Not keeping up with changes in the Highway Code is no excuse, but that's what happens.
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Re: Red X means don’t drive in that lane

Post by Helvellyn »

Ruperts Trooper wrote: The M42 trial and subsequent acceptance is only switched on during congestion, predominantly "rush hours", so the drivers are predominantly regulars - the rest of the time it's a normal 3-lane motorway with 70 mph limit.

The wider use of active management means that more drivers unfamiliar with a section of motorway will use them.

Not keeping up with changes in the Highway Code is no excuse, but that's what happens.
What new do you need to know when you first encounted a smart motorway even if you've not heard of it before, even if you've not seen a Highway Code for years? Anyone unable to figure it out and needs training shouldn't be let behind the wheel at all.
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Re: Red X means don’t drive in that lane

Post by Ruperts Trooper »

Helvellyn wrote:
Ruperts Trooper wrote: The M42 trial and subsequent acceptance is only switched on during congestion, predominantly "rush hours", so the drivers are predominantly regulars - the rest of the time it's a normal 3-lane motorway with 70 mph limit.

The wider use of active management means that more drivers unfamiliar with a section of motorway will use them.

Not keeping up with changes in the Highway Code is no excuse, but that's what happens.
What new do you need to know when you first encounted a smart motorway even if you've not heard of it before, even if you've not seen a Highway Code for years? Anyone unable to figure it out and needs training shouldn't be let behind the wheel at all.
You're not wrong - but politically, we're stuck with half the driving population that shouldn't ever have licences.

I couldn't tell road engineers how to design/build roads for numpties - but that should be paramount.
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