ROI: NSL sign to be re-introduced

[Gareth]

I think the return of NSL makes sense. I see no reason for confusion by foreigners, as most countries have some variant of it anyway, even if its a town name sign with a line through it. Besides, if you're driving in another country, it's your responsibility to read up and make sure you're aware of the rules and regs.

[Vierwielen]

The use of the NSL sign on the UK/RoI border technically contravenes the Vienna Convention on Road Signs and Signals. According to the convention, the diagonal black line signified "End of [local] prohibition or restriction" with the restriction in question shown on the sign. Restrictions on specific classes of traffic should be considered a "local restriction" and therefore placing such a sign at the start of a motorway contradicts the principal of a motorway.

[bothar]

The use of the NSL sign on the UK/RoI border technically contravenes the Vienna Convention on Road Signs and Signals. According to the convention, the diagonal black line signified "End of [local] prohibition or restriction" with the restriction in question shown on the sign. Restrictions on specific classes of traffic should be considered a "local restriction" and therefore placing such a sign at the start of a motorway contradicts the principal of a motorway.

There is no such sign at the start of a motorway at the border.
There is such usage of NSL at the start of motorways all over the UK though.


I think in this new sign the slow plate is bit naff, although it does always involve a reduction on speed limit. I think "local road" would have got the right message.

[FosseWay]

Same with driving in Spain, everything is signed with numbers, nice and easy. I'm sure many foreigners arriving in the UK would struggle with our system, especially in unfamiliar MPH. Yes; they should know beforehand but how many do?

You probably have a point about mph but otherwise is the concept of NSL and the way it's signed so different from elsewhere? For cars, Britain has default speed limits for urban areas, rural single carriageways and rural dual carriageways, just as most countries do. The assumption that the default applies in rural areas unless signed otherwise is also fairly standard.

What is perhaps less obvious is the link between the 30 limit and streetlight frequency, but that's got nothing to do with signed numerical limits vs. NSL signs.

Is it obvious? Obvious to us perhaps? In Spain yes 50km/h for built up areas is common but you see 40km/h just as often and sometimes 30km/h, all signed.

You misunderstand me. I agree that the 30 limit can be misleading at times, especially now you get 20 limits/zones as well. My point was that I don't think having an unsigned default limit on rural roads is either particularly difficult to grasp or particularly different from many other countries' rules. Even in Ireland the 80 limit is only signed at the point you leave some other speed limit - you can then travel for miles in a default 80 limit without seeing another speed limit sign.

[PaulBelfastLimerick]

The A1/N1 is not a motorway at the Irish border. On both sides, the options for non-motorway traffic are limited, (perhaps more so on the Louth side where the old N1 passed through the very scenic Ravensdale) so they are classified as high-quality dual-carriageways.

On a single-carriageway road crossing the border, there is generally only one set of poles on which either jurisdiction's speed limit plates are mounted back to back. In my experience (and I have used dozens of these roads.....for legitimate purposes), the poles are usually a few metres inside one or other jurisdiction but there doesn't appear to be a hard and fast rule.

I've often wondered if a speed limit sign's legitimacy could be challenged on the basis that it is mounted in a neighbouring jurisdiction?????

I can't see local authorities in the RoI replacing existing "80 km/h" signs with the new signs though. It wouldn't make economic or road sense.

[bothar]

The A1/N1 is not a motorway at the Irish border. On both sides, the options for non-motorway traffic are limited, (perhaps more so on the Louth side where the old N1 passed through the very scenic Ravensdale) so they are classified as high-quality dual-carriageways.

The N1 exists because the A1 is not designated, there is little stopping it being a motorway.

I've often wondered if a speed limit sign's legitimacy could be challenged on the basis that it is mounted in a neighbouring jurisdiction?????

I'm sure you could, but in each case the speed limit is only the default so a sign isn't really needed and the speed is the maximum for that class of road.

[carawaystick]

Strictly speaking the N1 exists anyway even if it was all motorway, same as the N50 legally exists too, just parts(or all) of those routes are designated motorway also

[spacetweek]

As for the N1 being non-motorway, it's true that a non-motorway route is available via Jonesborough and Meigh, but you'd have to use roads like this.

[Conekicker]

The use of the NSL sign on the UK/RoI border technically contravenes the Vienna Convention on Road Signs and Signals. According to the convention, the diagonal black line signified "End of [local] prohibition or restriction" with the restriction in question shown on the sign. Restrictions on specific classes of traffic should be considered a "local restriction" and therefore placing such a sign at the start of a motorway contradicts the principal of a motorway.

Has Ireland ever signed the Vienna Convention? I know the UK has but we've never ratified it.

[Viator]

Has Ireland ever signed the Vienna Convention? I know the UK has but we've never ratified it.

In Europe, Andorra, Iceland, Ireland, Liechtenstein, Malta, and Moldova are not signatories to the convention.

Spain, the United Kingdom, and the Vatican City are signatories to the convention but have yet to ratify it.

All other European countries have signed and ratified the convention (although only Albania, Azerbaijan, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, the Czech Republic, Italy, and Macedonia have done so without any reservations).

Briefing from Ireland's Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport states that

• although Ireland has not signed the convention it is still desirable to adopt its signage where possible.

(Note, BTW, that the convention does allow black-on-yellow-diamond danger warning signs as used in Ireland.)

[bothar]

As for the N1 being non-motorway, it's true that a non-motorway route is available via Jonesborough and Meigh, but you'd have to use roads like this.

This was the 17th century route between Dublin and Belfast.

However, the old road is extant except for a a kilometre or so at Dromad, and there is a minor road parallel here.

For a non tolled motorway there is no particular standard of alternative route required, only agricultural traffic, cyclists and the like are prohibited. Tolled motorways are different, as HGVs need an alternative route.

If the NRA had any wish to designate the N1 they would make modest improvements to the parallel minor road, I imagine they do not do so because the northern section is not designated, but they could if they wished.

Briefing from Ireland's Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport states that

although Ireland has not signed the convention it is still desirable to adopt its signage where possible.

Irish signage has become more compliant over the years.

[ajuk]

I can see why they would do this.

http://imgur.com/FlyiKKe

[nirs]

When asked why the new A1 Newry Bypass is not a motorway, TransportNI always say it's because of the lack of an alternative route for an approx 1km stretch between Cloghogue and Ellisholding Road here. At the same time, I don't think there's much appetite for creating motorways in Northern Ireland so they don't require much persuasion not to do them.

[AndyB]

Revisiting this one, I've found a former N road with this sign.

Dromore Lower, Letterkenny (GSV is out of date, but I was here yesterday). The verges have encroached on what was a normal S2 before the nearby dual carriageway was built in the late 1980s.