How long before all streetlights in most areas are LED?

[martinyoung91]

I visit mainly the Co. Londonderry and Tyrone areas of Northern Ireland, where most lights are either older SON/SOX from the 1970s/1980s or the top-mounted SON from the 1990s/2000s. By the way, how long ago did they start replacing SON with LED in Ballymena? My guess would be a year or so ago.

In my area, most lights are still SOX from when the houses were first built in the 1980s, but the council have started using LED for casual replacements. What's odd is the fact that they'll often replace a single SOX column with a new LED column in its place, but the SOX column/light is working just fine and they don't bother replacing the other columns. It's almost like the council say "we have the money for 5 new columns" so they have a lottery of 200 numbers/columns and pick out the numbers for five columns in the area.

TNI switched over to using LED from 2015, although casual replacements are 100% like for like, sodium -> sodium or LED -> LED. That way you'll often get a mixture of SOX and SON in the same street, but LED lit streets will be exclusively that. Interestingly in Ballymena there are a few areas done with Hardie 'Night Sight' lanterns, which look like a traditional 35W SOX, but give out white light.

[Jamesabout29]

Further to my previous post a few days ago, it now seems as if my local council have either run out of SOX lamps, or are not bothering to relamp SOX anymore, as a bunch of SOX lanterns that were out have been retrofitted with LED lights. This could be the beginning of the end for the SOX that has graced Essex's streets for so long. I hope not!

[trencheel303]

From an "on the ground" perspective, LED lights are getting good. It's a very sore subject with a lot of lighting enthusiasts, though, who are lamenting the demise of regular gas filled light-emitting bulbs.

Some people say that they are bad for business as they are putting skilled repairmen out of work. I can see that - but on the flip side of the coin others say it's markedly the way forward. As much as I like the idea, the industry of days of old "still working after 50 years" is not sustainable and it's with a heavy heart that I say that, but those who don't adapt will/are left behind. I think with this change in mentality, recycling must become better so that when we "throw away" old kit it can be effectively re-cycled/up-cycled into something better.

Earlier LED lantern designs, installations from 5-10 years ago when it was really quite a new technology (on such a large scale, I mean) tend to not be very good nowadays, with large gaps in light and low lumen levels. Modern examples, like the TRT Aspect lantern, give as good as or better light spread than even good HID lanterns, like the WRTL Arc. I also highly doubt that the LED examples my local council is using even come near to exceeding the power draw of 70W SON they are bettering and indeed replacing.

I'm massively fond of the Arc myself, and have one converted to mercury, making it somewhat resemblant of old American Cobrahead lanterns, but even as a "bulb enthusiast" it's getting harder and harder to deny the advantages of a good LED lantern.

With the rate at which technology is increasing, I don't think we will ever see a 100% adoption of LED. Even in the past technology has evolved quick enough to create overlaps, and adoption speed varies massively by area and even within areas. Glasgow's last gas lamp was snuffed out in 1971 - yes 1971! But, they also have SOX lamps on concrete columns that can only be from roughly the same era or older. If we think of the lighting timeline, with gas realistically being one step before incandescent (let's not muddy the waters with types like carbon arc which I don't think were very widely adopted), that's three generations apart lighting types being used at roughly the same time. Gas -> Incandescent -> mercury -> SOX. Glasgow also has early examples of SON (Alpha Three, Eight, et al) dating to the early 80s!

By the time LED "catches on" this business with laser lights, or even the next big idea after that will probably be getting rolled out. And, much like today with "rare spots" (mercury by the side of the motorway, anyone? ) there will be the same in 50, 100 years time. the odd SON lantern still burning away or early examples of LED from the 2000s that miraculously haven't died. Thats why, for me, the hobby will never become boring despite what some of the pessimists may say.

Further to my previous post a few days ago, it now seems as if my local council have either run out of SOX lamps, or are not bothering to relamp SOX anymore, as a bunch of SOX lanterns that were out have been retrofitted with LED lights. This could be the beginning of the end for the SOX that has graced Essex's streets for so long. I hope not!

From an end user's perspective, SOX lamps are getting bloody expensive. Although councils will have bulk buying ability and access to channels that end users don't, I imagine the price difference in relation to SON for instance, is representative. My understanding is that SOX production is being scaled right back, which is probably due to a chicken/egg relationship of production is dying off because no-one is installing the tech because lamps are expensive so... and repeat.

If SOX lamps are as expensive as I think they are (big ones approaching £100 a piece) then it's no way economically viable to service the old lanterns anymore. I'm actually glad that I have a small stock of SOX (and two 135W ones!) not as a cash cow but so I don't have to sell a kidney in a few decades' time to run a lantern for a bit.

[Jonathan24]

I visit mainly the Co. Londonderry and Tyrone areas of Northern Ireland, where most lights are either older SON/SOX from the 1970s/1980s or the top-mounted SON from the 1990s/2000s. By the way, how long ago did they start replacing SON with LED in Ballymena? My guess would be a year or so ago.

In my area, most lights are still SOX from when the houses were first built in the 1980s, but the council have started using LED for casual replacements. What's odd is the fact that they'll often replace a single SOX column with a new LED column in its place, but the SOX column/light is working just fine and they don't bother replacing the other columns. It's almost like the council say "we have the money for 5 new columns" so they have a lottery of 200 numbers/columns and pick out the numbers for five columns in the area.

TNI switched over to using LED from 2015, although casual replacements are 100% like for like, sodium -> sodium or LED -> LED. That way you'll often get a mixture of SOX and SON in the same street, but LED lit streets will be exclusively that. Interestingly in Ballymena there are a few areas done with Hardie 'Night Sight' lanterns, which look like a traditional 35W SOX, but give out white light.

I had also previously noticed that casual replacements were like for like however, just in the last couple of days, the light below was replaced with a LED lantern, but the rest of the street are still sodium lanterns:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.55511 ... 56!6m1!1e1

I had also previously noticed that where mainline SOX lanterns failed, they were replaced with SON (even for lamp failures) however a new batch of lamps now seems to have been sourced and SOX failures are now being relamped. Accordingly, the street linked below is now a whole mixture of SOX and SON!

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.55483 ... 56!6m1!1e1

[martinyoung91]

I visit mainly the Co. Londonderry and Tyrone areas of Northern Ireland, where most lights are either older SON/SOX from the 1970s/1980s or the top-mounted SON from the 1990s/2000s. By the way, how long ago did they start replacing SON with LED in Ballymena? My guess would be a year or so ago.

In my area, most lights are still SOX from when the houses were first built in the 1980s, but the council have started using LED for casual replacements. What's odd is the fact that they'll often replace a single SOX column with a new LED column in its place, but the SOX column/light is working just fine and they don't bother replacing the other columns. It's almost like the council say "we have the money for 5 new columns" so they have a lottery of 200 numbers/columns and pick out the numbers for five columns in the area.

TNI switched over to using LED from 2015, although casual replacements are 100% like for like, sodium -> sodium or LED -> LED. That way you'll often get a mixture of SOX and SON in the same street, but LED lit streets will be exclusively that. Interestingly in Ballymena there are a few areas done with Hardie 'Night Sight' lanterns, which look like a traditional 35W SOX, but give out white light.

I had also previously noticed that casual replacements were like for like however, just in the last couple of days, the light below was replaced with a LED lantern, but the rest of the street are still sodium lanterns:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.55511 ... 56!6m1!1e1

I had also previously noticed that where mainline SOX lanterns failed, they were replaced with SON (even for lamp failures) however a new batch of lamps now seems to have been sourced and SOX failures are now being relamped. Accordingly, the street linked below is now a whole mixture of SOX and SON!

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.55483 ... 56!6m1!1e1

Interesting, I walked past the one in Windermere on Sunday and it wasn't done then. Post tops are a certainly rareity in South Belfast. And the Cairnshill Road is just a mess, as is the Saintfield Road, with a mish-mash of SOX and SON.

I was astonished to see a complete new installation of SOX lanterns as late as November 2015 here:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.43655 ... 312!8i6656

[kevjs]

Nottingham finished replacing their street lights a couple of years ago - can't see widespread adoption of LED until the PFI agreement ends in 2035 - although I guess there may be a gradual replacement as the lights fail.

The county council (who started there upgrade programme about four years later than the city) are currently replacing everything with LED.

However a large part of the city (a private estate) still has gas street lighting with no plans to upgrade.

[trencheel303]

However a large part of the city (a private estate) still has gas street lighting with no plans to upgrade.

Could I have a maps link to this please?

[kevjs]

However a large part of the city (a private estate) still has gas street lighting with no plans to upgrade.

Could I have a maps link to this please?

It's "The Park" estate in Nottingham City Centre - pretty easy to see the streets on the ITO Street Lighting map... http://product.itoworld.com/map/69?lon= ... 46&zoom=15

[scott125]

In East Kilbride there is very little SOX left .
Speaking of LED i recall seeing some in Warrington about 10 years ago

[RJDG14]

In East Kilbride there is very little SOX left .
Speaking of LED i recall seeing some in Warrington about 10 years ago

Can you pinpoint where exactly (using GSV)? I'd imagine they'd still be there, or at least they'd be there on the 2009 imagery.

[scott125]

In East Kilbride there is very little SOX left .
Speaking of LED i recall seeing some in Warrington about 10 years ago

Can you pinpoint where exactly (using GSV)? I'd imagine they'd still be there, or at least they'd be there on the 2009 imagery.

Will have a look on GSV , was deffo Lancashire though i was on a train .

[scott125]

In East Kilbride there is very little SOX left .
Speaking of LED i recall seeing some in Warrington about 10 years ago

Can you pinpoint where exactly (using GSV)? I'd imagine they'd still be there, or at least they'd be there on the 2009 imagery.

Couldnt remember where exactly was somewhere in NW england , it might of not been LED but the design of lantern was flat with lots of holes i think .

[RJDG14]

In East Kilbride there is very little SOX left .
Speaking of LED i recall seeing some in Warrington about 10 years ago

Can you pinpoint where exactly (using GSV)? I'd imagine they'd still be there, or at least they'd be there on the 2009 imagery.

Couldnt remember where exactly was somewhere in NW england , it might of not been LED but the design of lantern was flat with lots of holes i think .

The unique flat lighting on the M6? I think that's an unusual design of SON.

[scott125]

Can you pinpoint where exactly (using GSV)? I'd imagine they'd still be there, or at least they'd be there on the 2009 imagery.

Couldnt remember where exactly was somewhere in NW england , it might of not been LED but the design of lantern was flat with lots of holes i think .

The unique flat lighting on the M6? I think that's an unusual design of SON.

Was not on M6 , was in Lancashire , warrington or wigan . I was on a train and was residential streets . Couldnt find any on streetview .

[trencheel303]

In East Kilbride there is very little SOX left .
Speaking of LED i recall seeing some in Warrington about 10 years ago

About three years ago I went to strathaven and there were plenty of Stewart & Lloyd steel columns with beta twos, an odd lantern for the pole height right enough. The poles original to the road judging by their style and positioning on the pavement. I gather originally they would have hung mercury top entry lanterns, and I saw a pic on ukastle a bit ago which more or less confirms that. I'll do a "then and now" mashup some day.

[cmjones01]

The first LED streetlights I remember seeing were on Riverside, Cambridge, probably about 10 years ago. The area close to the Elizabeth Way bridge was re-paved and generally refurbished after a serious flood. I can't find old imagery of the area at the moment, but the lights visible on Google Streetview from 2012:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.21102 ... 312!8i6656
look very similar to the ones I remember being installed then. The most serious flooding was in 2001 and then in 2009, and I think the refurbishment was done before the most recent flood.

Chris

[scott125]

In East Kilbride there is very little SOX left .
Speaking of LED i recall seeing some in Warrington about 10 years ago

About three years ago I went to strathaven and there were plenty of Stewart & Lloyd steel columns with beta twos, an odd lantern for the pole height right enough. The poles original to the road judging by their style and positioning on the pavement. I gather originally they would have hung mercury top entry lanterns, and I saw a pic on ukastle a bit ago which more or less confirms that. I'll do a "then and now" mashup some day.

That would be great . I dont live far from Strathaven but hardly go there , south lanarkshire or lanarkshire area has a lot of wire connected columns , never sure of how old they are .
On my walk that takes half in hour in EK i only see one bit of road with SOX , 1980s GEC blocks . I see a 85 on a metal tag on a concrete manhole , is that the year they were installed i wonder ?

[RJDG14]

I saw an SOX bulb replacement in my area the other day. How come councils will replace some with an identical bulb yet replace the lantern on others?

[Reading]

Reading is being done at present and here is an interesting local forum thread about saving the old cast iron lamposts https://www.reading-forum.co.uk/forum/v ... 38&t=12187

[WHBM]

Ours (inner London borough) are being changed over THIS WEEK. Lamps only, not poles. It's the fourth generation since the houses were built in the 1980s, it seems streetlights last for about 10 years now. I'm impressed by the speed of replacement, high lift up, change over, test, lift down, on to the next one, less than 10 minutes.

Poles were changed over last time around. The initial one had a notable constant ringing-bell sound whenever it was windy, caused by the cable inside hitting the pole interior as it vibrated in the wind. The other ones didn't do it, there must have been a retaining clip or something missing inside.

The notable thing for me is that not only are they LED, but they are also Dark Sky, highly-focused downwards only lights, which (apart from the different whiter colour) has made a complete change of appearance to the road, and eliminated almost all of the light spillage into the upper floor of the houses. Now I remember well reading the first account of Dark Sky lighting, there was an extensive description in Traffic Engineering & Control magazine when at university in the late 1970s. I found it a fascinating concept and told several people about it over the years. Pioneers were the city of Tucson in Arizona, in the middle of the desert, who took up the idea of eliminating as much as practical light pollution, to the extent that you could see the stars from the city centre again. 40 years later, AT LAST it comes to my front door. Of course, there's still loads of London light pollution all around.

I see that Tucson is now the headquarters of the International Dark Sky Organisation, who promote the idea round the world.