How long before all streetlights in most areas are LED?

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KeithW
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Re: How long before all streetlights in most areas are LED?

Post by KeithW »

Paianni wrote:
KeithW wrote:In my neighbourhood with SOX lights emitting in all directions and the orange glow reflecting from clouds I would have rated as an 8. Only the very brightest stars were visible and I could not see any constellations.

With the current LED setup I would rate it at Bortle 4 to 5.
Glare from a deep bowled luminaire will reduce the ability to see any light dimmer than it in the background. Nothing to do with skyglow though, and the reduction in the lumens output of the replacement LEDs was also a factor. Your judgement could have easily been influenced by a confirmation bias.

Most of the lights in my county switch off at 12-midnight (except the LED-lit A-roads) and the 'orange glow' doesn't go away, it comes from a range of sources, mainly London.
So it sounds like you should be agitating for the GLC to adopt LED to me.
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Patrick Harper
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Re: How long before all streetlights in most areas are LED?

Post by Patrick Harper »

I thought the GLC was abolished in 1986. Now it's a mess of boroughs doing their own thing. All of TfLs routes are now LED-lit though.
Glenn A
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Re: How long before all streetlights in most areas are LED?

Post by Glenn A »

Copeland is steadily phasing out SOX lighting and nearly all the street lighting in town centres and on main roads is LED. One cheap way to convert is to retain the original lantern, but replace the bulb.
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Re: How long before all streetlights in most areas are LED?

Post by Robert Kilcoyne »

Glenn A wrote:Copeland is steadily phasing out SOX lighting and nearly all the street lighting in town centres and on main roads is LED. One cheap way to convert is to retain the original lantern, but replace the bulb.
I would prefer retrofitting the original lanterns with LED bulbs where possible. As part of the redevelopment of the old Birmingham New Street Station (now Birmingham Grand Central) WRTL Arcs with LED bulbs were installed at the main entrance opposite the Bull Ring Shopping Centre and they are very attractive.
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Patrick Harper
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Re: How long before all streetlights in most areas are LED?

Post by Patrick Harper »

Robert Kilcoyne wrote:
Glenn A wrote:Copeland is steadily phasing out SOX lighting and nearly all the street lighting in town centres and on main roads is LED. One cheap way to convert is to retain the original lantern, but replace the bulb.
I would prefer retrofitting the original lanterns with LED bulbs where possible. As part of the redevelopment of the old Birmingham New Street Station (now Birmingham Grand Central) WRTL Arcs with LED bulbs were installed at the main entrance opposite the Bull Ring Shopping Centre and they are very attractive.
They're probably using Indo's gear tray kits: http://indolighting.com/geartrays/
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Re: How long before all streetlights in most areas are LED?

Post by Glenn A »

Paianni wrote:
Robert Kilcoyne wrote:
Glenn A wrote:Copeland is steadily phasing out SOX lighting and nearly all the street lighting in town centres and on main roads is LED. One cheap way to convert is to retain the original lantern, but replace the bulb.
I would prefer retrofitting the original lanterns with LED bulbs where possible. As part of the redevelopment of the old Birmingham New Street Station (now Birmingham Grand Central) WRTL Arcs with LED bulbs were installed at the main entrance opposite the Bull Ring Shopping Centre and they are very attractive.
They're probably using Indo's gear tray kits: http://indolighting.com/geartrays/
Very nice, as it would be sad to see the meat pie lanterns in places like Cockermouth go.
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Patrick Harper
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Re: How long before all streetlights in most areas are LED?

Post by Patrick Harper »

Meat pie lanterns? Haha. There's a reason brand new lanterns are often opted for however, older lanterns lose their water ingress protection as their materials start to break apart and/or degrade, reducing the lifetime of the electronics within. With an LED-specific lantern the manufacturer can not only maximise heat dissipation but they can also design a more structurally sound chassis than would be possible with an HID/SOX lantern.

I for one have no problem with the new designs as they are far less aesthetically intrusive. But I lament the loss of the most efficient lamps with some of the best characteristics for light pollution minimisation; the LED equivalents are nowhere near as efficient. I hope that some day a product will come to market with the best of both worlds.
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sotonsteve
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Re: How long before all streetlights in most areas are LED?

Post by sotonsteve »

It has... LED.

To say LED is not as efficient as HID at lighting is nonsense. If you're blindly counting the lumens then perhaps, but lighting is more than just being about the quantity of lumens. No HID is a match for LED now.
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Re: How long before all streetlights in most areas are LED?

Post by Patrick Harper »

sotonsteve wrote:It has... LED.

To say LED is not as efficient as HID at lighting is nonsense. If you're blindly counting the lumens then perhaps, but lighting is more than just being about the quantity of lumens. No HID is a match for LED now.
You missed the second part of the sentence. Amber NBA-LEDs are far less efficient than SOX.
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Re: How long before all streetlights in most areas are LED?

Post by brummie_rob »

Robert Kilcoyne wrote:
Glenn A wrote:Copeland is steadily phasing out SOX lighting and nearly all the street lighting in town centres and on main roads is LED. One cheap way to convert is to retain the original lantern, but replace the bulb.
I would prefer retrofitting the original lanterns with LED bulbs where possible. As part of the redevelopment of the old Birmingham New Street Station (now Birmingham Grand Central) WRTL Arcs with LED bulbs were installed at the main entrance opposite the Bull Ring Shopping Centre and they are very attractive.
They have done this on the M6 Toll, retained the original fightings and put LED in. I quite like the idea on some more retro fittings but stuff circa 2000, they look ugly anyway!
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Re: How long before all streetlights in most areas are LED?

Post by Robert Kilcoyne »

brummie_rob wrote:
Robert Kilcoyne wrote:
Glenn A wrote:Copeland is steadily phasing out SOX lighting and nearly all the street lighting in town centres and on main roads is LED. One cheap way to convert is to retain the original lantern, but replace the bulb.
I would prefer retrofitting the original lanterns with LED bulbs where possible. As part of the redevelopment of the old Birmingham New Street Station (now Birmingham Grand Central) WRTL Arcs with LED bulbs were installed at the main entrance opposite the Bull Ring Shopping Centre and they are very attractive.
They have done this on the M6 Toll, retained the original fightings and put LED in. I quite like the idea on some more retro fittings but stuff circa 2000, they look ugly anyway!
I assume that the LED lanterns have been fitted to the flat glass Vectras. I can say that I have seen many more aesthetically pleasing lanterns than the Vectra.
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Re: How long before all streetlights in most areas are LED?

Post by brummie_rob »

Robert Kilcoyne wrote:
brummie_rob wrote:
Robert Kilcoyne wrote:
I would prefer retrofitting the original lanterns with LED bulbs where possible. As part of the redevelopment of the old Birmingham New Street Station (now Birmingham Grand Central) WRTL Arcs with LED bulbs were installed at the main entrance opposite the Bull Ring Shopping Centre and they are very attractive.
They have done this on the M6 Toll, retained the original fightings and put LED in. I quite like the idea on some more retro fittings but stuff circa 2000, they look ugly anyway!
I assume that the LED lanterns have been fitted to the flat glass Vectras. I can say that I have seen many more aesthetically pleasing lanterns than the Vectra.
That is the one, couldn't think of the name. I really hate them, but at least the LED at night means you don't see the tops really! They have left the M6 mainline (about 8 lamps worth) SON for now despite them being fitted at the same time. I presume the company who owns the M6 Toll refused to pay for LED on the other lamps maybe?
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Re: How long before all streetlights in most areas are LED?

Post by Jonathan24 »

martinyoung91 wrote:
Jonathan24 wrote:
martinyoung91 wrote:
Interesting, I walked past the one in Windermere on Sunday and it wasn't done then. Post tops are a certainly rareity in South Belfast. And the Cairnshill Road is just a mess, as is the Saintfield Road, with a mish-mash of SOX and SON.

I was astonished to see a complete new installation of SOX lanterns as late as November 2015 here:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.43655 ... 312!8i6656
Interestingly, the Cairnshill road is now even more of a mess as, not content with randomly replacing SOX with SON (but relamping other SOX), some SOX is now being replaced with LED (but not consistently, as SON is still being fitted too!)

So it's now SOX, SON and LED all on the same short stretch of road...it's quite distracting seeing all the different colours.
The mish-mash of SOX, SON & LED at Cairnshill Roundabout.
So much for the long life of LED lanterns...this one has failed already

Image
scott125
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Re: How long before all streetlights in most areas are LED?

Post by scott125 »

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.81832 ... 6656?hl=en

Passed these today , still going strong , in Glasgow boundary so may be LED soon . Anyone know the age of these ? Thorn Alphas
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Patrick Harper
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Re: How long before all streetlights in most areas are LED?

Post by Patrick Harper »

Jonathan24 wrote:
martinyoung91 wrote:
Jonathan24 wrote:
Interestingly, the Cairnshill road is now even more of a mess as, not content with randomly replacing SOX with SON (but relamping other SOX), some SOX is now being replaced with LED (but not consistently, as SON is still being fitted too!)

So it's now SOX, SON and LED all on the same short stretch of road...it's quite distracting seeing all the different colours.
The mish-mash of SOX, SON & LED at Cairnshill Roundabout.
So much for the long life of LED lanterns...this one has failed already

Image
It might just be the photocell, or the mains connection has failed. Don't make assumptions.
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Re: How long before all streetlights in most areas are LED?

Post by brummie_rob »

Stoke Council seem to be replacing all the heads to LED from any lighting last updated in the PFI in 2006-2009 but leaving older lighting as it is. Seems odd, some of it looks like it doesn't require much work to replace the heads on the older SON lamps but any remaining SOX doesn't look like being replaced (some lighting was missed last time around).
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Re: How long before all streetlights in most areas are LED?

Post by Jonathan24 »

Paianni wrote:
Jonathan24 wrote:
martinyoung91 wrote:
The mish-mash of SOX, SON & LED at Cairnshill Roundabout.
So much for the long life of LED lanterns...this one has failed already

Image
It might just be the photocell, or the mains connection has failed. Don't make assumptions.
An bit of an ironic (and rude) response...

It doesn't have a photocell, as it is group switched and the photocell is not on this lantern, so your assumption there is wrong.

It's also statistically much more likely that the lantern has failed rather than the power supply and there have been a surprising (in my view) number of LED failures, even amongst brand new columns, cabling and lanterns, some of which have only worked for a matter of weeks. The fact that some LED lanterns have since been replaced with SON, tells me the failure is with the lantern and not the power supply.

I'm not saying that LED isn't the way forward (I am keen on seeing it develop and am replacing all my household bulbs with LED) but just saying that the reliability might not offer the cost and maintenance savings which are being held out by the manufacturers.
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Patrick Harper
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Re: How long before all streetlights in most areas are LED?

Post by Patrick Harper »

Jonathan24 wrote:
Paianni wrote:
Jonathan24 wrote:
So much for the long life of LED lanterns...this one has failed already

Image
It might just be the photocell, or the mains connection has failed. Don't make assumptions.
An bit of an ironic (and rude) response...

It doesn't have a photocell, as it is group switched and the photocell is not on this lantern, so your assumption there is wrong.

It's also statistically much more likely that the lantern has failed rather than the power supply and there have been a surprising (in my view) number of LED failures, even amongst brand new columns, cabling and lanterns, some of which have only worked for a matter of weeks. The fact that some LED lanterns have since been replaced with SON, tells me the failure is with the lantern and not the power supply.

I'm not saying that LED isn't the way forward (I am keen on seeing it develop and am replacing all my household bulbs with LED) but just saying that the reliability might not offer the cost and maintenance savings which are being held out by the manufacturers.
The price of having pictures disabled in my browser... :oops:

LED lanterns being replaced with SON? That's a first. Are the contractors for casual replacements not expecting to have to refit a lantern in an LED area and therefore only have SON equipment in their inventory? :confused:
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Focus 2
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Re: How long before all streetlights in most areas are LED?

Post by Focus 2 »

Here in Paphos, Cyprus I've not seen any LED lighting. Most is of what I call the, "Salmon Pink" variety as frequently encountered in the '90s.

The rest are rather period looking "hooks" with standard energy saving light bulbs fitted attached to wooden poles.
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Stevie D
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Re: How long before all streetlights in most areas are LED?

Post by Stevie D »

The streetlight opposite my house has just been replaced with an LED lamp. The road is now clearly lit, but nothing else is. The illumination is very tightly focused on the road and the pavement, with no bleeding either side. This now means that I have to walk up my short garden path and try to connect key to keyhole with pretty much no help from the streetlight, whereas before it was clearly lit and a lot easier and safer, but without being so bright as to be an annoyance. To me, that makes the LED lights a retrograde step.
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