What’s the purpose of the “queues likely” sign?

[martin2345uk]

Just wondered when I passed one yesterday... is it so when people are stuck in a queue there they are less irritated, or not thinking “what the hell is causing this queue!”?

[Ruperts Trooper]

To reduce the risk of high-speed traffic hitting the back of the queue.

[Bryn666]

To reduce the risk of high-speed traffic hitting the back of the queue.

Precisely this; it is a warning that stationary traffic may be encountered ahead. Typically it should be used only on high speed roads as in 30 mph urban contexts you're going to expect queues if you're a competent driver.

[Glen]

It's to warn of the likelihood of stationary traffic in the carriageway.

There are some LED examples which are activated by loops in the carriageway which detect when traffic is stationary over them. Such as warning when traffic is queued from an deceleration lane into the main carriageway.

[Mark Hewitt]

To reduce the risk of high-speed traffic hitting the back of the queue.

Especially in areas of poor visibility e.g. when a queue for a junction could be just around a bend.

[WHBM]

To minimise things like this, in the news only today

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-no ... e-41848876

A well-known spot on the A1 where exiting traffic for the A46 can back up onto the main carriageway. By no means the first fatal there. of course, the warning board depends on drivers paying attention to them, and to their driving in general, to having a UK licence, and being able to understand English words like "Queues Likely". None of which seems to apply here.

I wonder if the Traffic Commissioner, given that the driver was actually resident in the UK and therefore likely to be working for a UK haulier, will take the haulier to the cleaners over employing drivers like this.

I have seen a couple of demand-activated flashing warning signs, driven by stationary traffic detection loops at common locations like this.

[Johnathan404]

I recall a TV investigation in to one particularly nasty rear-end shunt on the M3, which noted that the offending vehicle had passed two 'queues likely' signs within a mile of the collision.

I don't think there are many places where a 'queues likely' is useful. If there is a risk of rear-end shunts which can't be mitigated by any other measure then yes you should warn approaching traffic, but we don't want to reach a point where you might as well attach the sign to every motorway chopsticks.

[Bryn666]

The manual tells you what to do:

Code: Select all

Drivers should expect to meet queues on the approaches to roundabouts or traffic signals, where adequate advance warning can usually be given using signs to diagram 510 (see paras 2.13 to 2.18) or 543 (see section 8) as appropriate. The “Queues likely” signs, diagrams 584 and 584.1, are intended for use where drivers might unexpectedly come across a queue, e.g. around a bend or over the brow of a hill. These signs should be used only where there is a persistent problem, causing a significant hazard, despite the presence of the standard warning signs and are not appropriate as a general warning of congestion. They should be sited sufficiently far in advance of the obstruction to the sight line to enable drivers to stop in time. Distance plates must not be used.

The M3 ones are therefore wrongly placed, but hey ho. The Smart Motorway will have eliminated all congestion forever anyway, fact!

[WHBM]

The M3 ones are therefore wrongly placed, but hey ho.

Not only wrongly placed, but if I recall them correctly, and they may date from pre-Smart Motorway times, they also had distance plates. There was one around Farnborough warning of queues for 10 miles, to the M25.

[KeithW]

To minimise things like this, in the news only today

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-no ... e-41848876

A well-known spot on the A1 where exiting traffic for the A46 can back up onto the main carriageway. By no means the first fatal there. of course, the warning board depends on drivers paying attention to them, and to their driving in general, to having a UK licence, and being able to understand English words like "Queues Likely". None of which seems to apply here.

I wonder if the Traffic Commissioner, given that the driver was actually resident in the UK and therefore likely to be working for a UK haulier, will take the haulier to the cleaners over employing drivers like this.

I have seen a couple of demand-activated flashing warning signs, driven by stationary traffic detection loops at common locations like this.

I would rather see the junction being fixed, it is an appalling setup with slip road leading straight into a short length of tight curving road and a busy roundabout. It could almost have been designed to block the inside lane at busy periods.

[martin2345uk]

Thanks for the informative replies all!

[Big L]

I passed the previous version of the sign recently. The plate 'Queues likely' makes far more sense with this sign than it does with the current one. What's the point of a picture on a sign if you need to explain it with words?

[mikehindsonevans]

The M3 ones are therefore wrongly placed, but hey ho.

Not only wrongly placed, but if I recall them correctly, and they may date from pre-Smart Motorway times, they also had distance plates. There was one around Farnborough warning of queues for 10 miles, to the M25.

These signs being discussed up-thread were in the run-up, southbound, to the Basingstoke (j6) exit and featured in a plod documentary filmed around 2005-2006. The lorry driver who crushed the little silver car (and the young woman inside) had been learning about his new phone.

So, the two signs were in the right place but the "loose nut behind the steering wheel" wasn't looking out. Not surprisingly, the police officer involved wasn't very happy.......

Court case reported (BBC News website archive):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hamp ... 252872.stm

[trickstat]

As a young man, I remember having a rather scary near miss on the A414 (it may have been the A405 then) about half a mile east of the Park Street Roundabout (of Highway Code fame). I used to drive to work from Stevenage to Hendon. The A1(M) was massively jammed so I turned off at Hatfield figuring that I would be slightly less late if I diverted via the M1. I came over the brow of a hill doing about 60 only to be confronted with the back of a stationary queue a scarily short distance in front. The next thing I was really aware of was me managing to come to a stop a couple of feet from the back of the car at the rear of the queue. IIRC the driver in front gave no real sign that he was aware that I had nearly caused serious harm to him and his car.

[Vierwielen]

I passed the previous version of the sign recently. The plate 'Queues likely' makes far more sense with this sign than it does with the current one. What's the point of a picture on a sign if you need to explain it with words?

The picture is for international use. The words are to educate the driver as to what the picture means. See Sign A24 on page 86 (with reference to Sign A on Page 83) in the Vienna Convention on Road Signs.

[Chris5156]

The M3 ones are therefore wrongly placed, but hey ho.

Not only wrongly placed, but if I recall them correctly, and they may date from pre-Smart Motorway times, they also had distance plates. There was one around Farnborough warning of queues for 10 miles, to the M25.

They're at least ten years old. I think the ones Londonbound were nearer Basingstoke and the distance plate was "for 16 miles".

[ScottB5411]

I believe the first "queues likely" London bound on the M3 was just before Fleet services and had the "for 16 miles" plate

[Piatkow]

As a young man, I remember having a rather scary near miss on the A414 (it may have been the A405 then) about half a mile east of the Park Street Roundabout (of Highway Code fame). I used to drive to work from Stevenage to Hendon. The A1(M) was massively jammed so I turned off at Hatfield figuring that I would be slightly less late if I diverted via the M1. I came over the brow of a hill doing about 60 only to be confronted with the back of a stationary queue a scarily short distance in front. The next thing I was really aware of was me managing to come to a stop a couple of feet from the back of the car at the rear of the queue. IIRC the driver in front gave no real sign that he was aware that I had nearly caused serious harm to him and his car.

There is a permanent warning sign just before the brow of the hill now.

[trickstat]

As a young man, I remember having a rather scary near miss on the A414 (it may have been the A405 then) about half a mile east of the Park Street Roundabout (of Highway Code fame). I used to drive to work from Stevenage to Hendon. The A1(M) was massively jammed so I turned off at Hatfield figuring that I would be slightly less late if I diverted via the M1. I came over the brow of a hill doing about 60 only to be confronted with the back of a stationary queue a scarily short distance in front. The next thing I was really aware of was me managing to come to a stop a couple of feet from the back of the car at the rear of the queue. IIRC the driver in front gave no real sign that he was aware that I had nearly caused serious harm to him and his car.

There is a permanent warning sign just before the brow of the hill now.

IIRC there is a sign before the brow of the last hill before the Park Street roundabout, but the queue I nearly ran into started just after the brow of the hill before that.

[c2R]

As a young man, I remember having a rather scary near miss on the A414 (it may have been the A405 then) about half a mile east of the Park Street Roundabout (of Highway Code fame). I used to drive to work from Stevenage to Hendon. The A1(M) was massively jammed so I turned off at Hatfield figuring that I would be slightly less late if I diverted via the M1. I came over the brow of a hill doing about 60 only to be confronted with the back of a stationary queue a scarily short distance in front. The next thing I was really aware of was me managing to come to a stop a couple of feet from the back of the car at the rear of the queue. IIRC the driver in front gave no real sign that he was aware that I had nearly caused serious harm to him and his car.

There is a permanent warning sign just before the brow of the hill now.

IIRC there is a sign before the brow of the last hill before the Park Street roundabout, but the queue I nearly ran into started just after the brow of the hill before that.

Yes, the visibility on the crests of the North Orbital around the St Albans bypass is poor. This crest is also bad, as the skid marks on GSV show: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.73133 ... 312!8i6656

I'd anticipate a 50mph limit being applied on this stretch at some stage in the future, as I suspect the engineering works required to sort out the crests and sight lines would be astronomically expensive!