SOX street lights, which areas still have them?

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ManomayLR
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Re: SOX street lights, which areas still have them?

Post by ManomayLR »

Patrick Harper wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 17:53
EpicChef wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 17:18
c2R wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 07:03

Causing gasses to illuminate is a different sort of technology to light emitting diodes. In the case of the ballast, it prevents too much current being drawn (i.e. all of the available) which could cause the light to overheat and explode. There would also need to be higher current provided to help the light start, which the ballast can regulate.

LED bulbs on the other hand typically come with built-in circuitry that performs AC>DC rectification using diodes and resistors.
In the case of LPS, I know that the neon gas evaporates first, which causes the characteristic red color during the warmup phase. The hot neon gas causes the solid sodium metal to evaporate, and it's the sodium vapor at a very low pressure that causes the bright yellow.

HPS lamps are much more compact, and their somewhat lighter color is because other gases like mercury are present as well as the sodium, to give a whiter look on a wider spectrum of colors.

Why did LPS become so frowned upon and why are councils so desperate to get rid of them? I certainly will miss LPS when we lose it for good.
I think you know this already and you are just dwelling on the topic at this point.
Indeed I am... just saw the LPS lights on the A1 between A5135 and South Mimms Interchange, many lighting columns have been removed and some columns have had the light fittings / luminaries removed from them. Other light fittings have had the LPS bulbs removed, it’s really pathetic!
Though roads may not put a smile on everyone's face, there is one road that always will: the road to home.
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Re: SOX street lights, which areas still have them?

Post by Patrick Harper »

EpicChef wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 18:54
Patrick Harper wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 17:53
EpicChef wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 17:18
In the case of LPS, I know that the neon gas evaporates first, which causes the characteristic red color during the warmup phase. The hot neon gas causes the solid sodium metal to evaporate, and it's the sodium vapor at a very low pressure that causes the bright yellow.

HPS lamps are much more compact, and their somewhat lighter color is because other gases like mercury are present as well as the sodium, to give a whiter look on a wider spectrum of colors.

Why did LPS become so frowned upon and why are councils so desperate to get rid of them? I certainly will miss LPS when we lose it for good.
I think you know this already and you are just dwelling on the topic at this point.
Indeed I am... just saw the LPS lights on the A1 between A5135 and South Mimms Interchange, many lighting columns have been removed and some columns have had the light fittings / luminaries removed from them. Other light fittings have had the LPS bulbs removed, it’s really pathetic!
I went down there at night in 2017 to film the lights as they were nearly all working except a few SON replacements (I messed up the camera angle, but oh well). I took down the video due to use of copyrighted music but it'll be back up at some point. The lighting system there is very old now, I reckon late 70s/early 80s. I'm not sure the section of road qualifies for lighting under the current guidelines.

This decade is certainly the end of the road for SOX, just as last decade was for MBF, and there's nothing that can be done about it at this point except maybe advocate for NBA or warmer LED lights. Lately I've often pondered to myself whether the catenary system on the M1 could qualify as a grade listed structure, but I may be in fantasy land.
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Re: SOX street lights, which areas still have them?

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Patrick Harper wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 19:41 Lately I've often pondered to myself whether the catenary system on the M1 could qualify as a grade listed structure, but I may be in fantasy land.
Even if it did, it's quite likely the lights themselves would remain switched off. Or (gulp) the LPS bulbs inside would be replaced with LED.
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Re: SOX street lights, which areas still have them?

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EpicChef wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 20:07
Patrick Harper wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 19:41 Lately I've often pondered to myself whether the catenary system on the M1 could qualify as a grade listed structure, but I may be in fantasy land.
Even if it did, it's quite likely the lights themselves would remain switched off. Or (gulp) the LPS bulbs inside would be replaced with LED.
Well that would be a given, but it might be possible to restore/remanufacture the Phosco lantern enclosures and fit them with NBA LEDs that mimic SOX output as close as possible. Maybe modify the new lanterns on the J6 slips with NBA LEDs as well. Make all of that a liability as part of the listing process. I'm afraid a few hard-core enthusiasts wouldn't be enough to make it happen though.
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Re: SOX street lights, which areas still have them?

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Patrick Harper wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 20:14I'm afraid a few hard-core enthusiasts wouldn't be enough to make it happen though.
As Gareth and I have pointed out in another SOX discussion recently, the Hardie side-road type lantern is a Beta 5 SOX housing. Admittedly,
they use white LEDs in place of a lamp, but the fact they re-used an old design is an interesting touch.

I can't really work out why they did it, mind you. Especially given the rest of the range is aesthetically nothing like the lanterns they replace.
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Re: SOX street lights, which areas still have them?

Post by ManomayLR »

Patrick Harper wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 20:14
EpicChef wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 20:07
Patrick Harper wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 19:41 Lately I've often pondered to myself whether the catenary system on the M1 could qualify as a grade listed structure, but I may be in fantasy land.
Even if it did, it's quite likely the lights themselves would remain switched off. Or (gulp) the LPS bulbs inside would be replaced with LED.
Well that would be a given, but it might be possible to restore/remanufacture the Phosco lantern enclosures and fit them with NBA LEDs that mimic SOX output as close as possible. Maybe modify the new lanterns on the J6 slips with NBA LEDs as well. Make all of that a liability as part of the listing process. I'm afraid a few hard-core enthusiasts wouldn't be enough to make it happen though.
Because of color rendering I think LPS is no longer compliant with regulations. Narrow band amber would probably have the same issue. Though I would love an LED that started as reddish pink and would automatically move to narrow band amber to simulate LPS warmup.
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Re: SOX street lights, which areas still have them?

Post by Patrick Harper »

traffic-light-man wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 20:26
Patrick Harper wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 20:14I'm afraid a few hard-core enthusiasts wouldn't be enough to make it happen though.
As Gareth and I have pointed out in another SOX discussion recently, the Hardie side-road type lantern is a Beta 5 SOX housing. Admittedly,
they use white LEDs in place of a lamp, but the fact they re-used an old design is an interesting touch.

I can't really work out why they did it, mind you. Especially given the rest of the range is aesthetically nothing like the lanterns they replace.
They are very similar but I think the Night Sight is a clean sheet design in the 'style' of the last gen Beta 5. The Night Sight is much slimmer. I can't imagine the optical performance is anything to shout about and I don't really care, Hardie doesn't strike me as a particularly professional business.
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Re: SOX street lights, which areas still have them?

Post by scott125 »

How old do you reckon the oldest SOX lantern is in the UK?

Some old ones in Glasgow , look like from 1960s!

In Glasgow ive seen some Philips MA50s , that look new replace older SOX.
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Re: SOX street lights, which areas still have them?

Post by Gareth »

The Wardle Liverpool lantern was in production from the 1930-50s. There's still three examples hanging on. They're on Gateacre Brow in Liverpool.
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Re: SOX street lights, which areas still have them?

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Gareth wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 23:57 The Wardle Liverpool lantern was in production from the 1930-50s. There's still three examples hanging on. They're on Gateacre Brow in Liverpool.
Here's a bad photo of them taken the other day. The other two are further up the hill so not visible in this shot.

I also stopped off at a (perhaps the last?) green canopy SOX lantern on Menlove Ave the same evening, though it had got sufficiently dark enough that the photos show nothing of the green canopy!
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Re: SOX street lights, which areas still have them?

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traffic-light-man wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:10
Gareth wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 23:57 The Wardle Liverpool lantern was in production from the 1930-50s. There's still three examples hanging on. They're on Gateacre Brow in Liverpool.
Here's a bad photo of them taken the other day. The other two are further up the hill so not visible in this shot.

I also stopped off at a (perhaps the last?) green canopy SOX lantern on Menlove Ave the same evening, though it had got sufficiently dark enough that the photos show nothing of the green canopy!
Last month there were still several "Liverpool Greens" around the south east corner of the city, including on the ring road and Mather Avenue. Days must be numbered given how fast the CU Highways on the A57 and A59 have come down this year.
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Re: SOX street lights, which areas still have them?

Post by traffic-light-man »

Bryn666 wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 22:19Last month there were still several "Liverpool Greens" around the south east corner of the city, including on the ring road and Mather Avenue. Days must be numbered given how fast the CU Highways on the A57 and A59 have come down this year.
I'll have to pay some attention to the Allerton Road end of Mather Ave. They wiped out a fair number of the Greens from South Parkway up to around Tesco in one hit when they LED-ified a few years back (GSV reckons somewhere in the 2013/2014 time frame, though I didn't think it was that long ago). There is still an enclave of SOX at each end, though.

I'm not sure if they ever reached any further than the Southern avenue roads and the southern end of Queens Drive. Another type that I think is perhaps lost to history by now is the Liverpool Oval that was still quite common when I was growing up. I can't think of any that are left, though I'd be happy to pointed in the direction of one that's still going!
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Re: SOX street lights, which areas still have them?

Post by Gareth »

Is the oval by Allerton Library not still there?

Also, there's still one off Taggart Ave (Dunbabin Rd), so far as I know.
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Re: SOX street lights, which areas still have them?

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https://goo.gl/maps/oCDtcWLaqYVFEDmU6

That was still there the other week.
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Re: SOX street lights, which areas still have them?

Post by Gareth »

There were a couple on Naylorsfield Dr in Netherley last time I was down that way too.
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Re: SOX street lights, which areas still have them?

Post by traffic-light-man »

That's a good few examples, I'm glad to see there's still some around! I'm surprised I'd missed the Queens Drive example, though I don't think I'd have noticed the other ones without looking for them specifically.

Some of the original columns left on Queens Drive too, though sadly without the original ornate brackets. The last of those was this one, which has now bitten the dust.
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Re: SOX street lights, which areas still have them?

Post by Dorman-Smith »

The only ones I ever see here now are the lamps on our factory site roads, and when the lamp fail in these the fitting are replace with LED fittings! (Hi Si, the lamps have cleaned up nicely, thanks for the deal :-) Rob)
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Re: SOX street lights, which areas still have them?

Post by Truvelo »

Just for fun here's a photo of my office lit by 35w SOX. It's actually a pleasant light to be working in facing away from the lantern. It's also more energy efficient than the LED lighting in the ceiling. So SOX is still alive and kicking around here. The column outside my house still retains its SOX lantern too.
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Re: SOX street lights, which areas still have them?

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traffic-light-man wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:10
Gareth wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 23:57 The Wardle Liverpool lantern was in production from the 1930-50s. There's still three examples hanging on. They're on Gateacre Brow in Liverpool.
Here's a bad photo of them taken the other day. The other two are further up the hill so not visible in this shot.

I also stopped off at a (perhaps the last?) green canopy SOX lantern on Menlove Ave the same evening, though it had got sufficiently dark enough that the photos show nothing of the green canopy!
The columns look the same as the ones in Glasgow
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Re: SOX street lights, which areas still have them?

Post by traffic-light-man »

Gareth wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 13:27 Is the oval by Allerton Library not still there?

Also, there's still one off Taggart Ave (Dunbabin Rd), so far as I know.
I took a little detour on the way back in to the city last night, and the Allerton Library one looked like it was still going, as did the Queens Drive one. Unfortunately, the Dunbairn Road one was unlit, so I'm not sure if that's got much life left in it or the council will just swap it out with an LED unit on a new pole.
Gareth wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 18:23 There were a couple on Naylorsfield Dr in Netherley last time I was down that way too.
I'm sorry to report that these appear to have both bitten the dust, replaced with LEDs and metal poles.
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