Wonky arrow signs - when were they phased out?

[mubd1234]

G'day from Australia. I'm a roadgeek from Sydney and I've just come across a photo of a sign which dates to 1974. It's very obviously based off of those early British motorway exit signs with a slightly wonky arrow/fork.


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I'm just wondering when the 'wonky arrow' signs were phased out from new installations on motorways in the UK. From my understanding of what I've read online, the British standard had gone to a straight fork long before this sign was created, which would obviously mean that the state roads department would have been well behind the times when whipping up that sign.

Around the same time this sign was made, the state roads department was introducing some European flourishes to newer road signs - including the 'chopsticks' sign, countdown markers (both now no longer used, but some existing ones still remain) and other things.

The same exit sign looks like this today:

[wrinkly]

No doubt Bryn or some other expert will be along shortly, but I would have guessed about 1965.

For example a lot of the M6 southward from Preston opened in 1963 and its signs still had the slope.

J32-33 opened in 1965 and I think it didn't have the slope.

[Berk]

Even if they were deprecated at some point, I would’ve been sorry to see them go. Surely it was not necessary to replace them unless they became too weather-worn/unable to meet modern standards.

I can honestly say I’m too young to have ever seen them in service... though they must’ve been around when I was a kid.

[wrinkly]

Even if they were deprecated at some point, I would’ve been sorry to see them go. Surely it was not necessary to replace them unless they became too weather-worn/unable to meet

They weren't replaced until they needed replacing anyway.

[Berk]

Next thing is, how many discrete stretches of motorway were equipped with Anderson signs?? Was it comprehensive, or just piecemeal as and when new stretches opened??

That being said, it amounts to much the same thing (the growing network was pretty fragmented to begin with).

[RichardA626]

CRDB reckons some "wonky" signs lasted until the 1990s.

[Darren]

CRDB reckons some "wonky" signs lasted until the 1990s.

I remember in the mid 80s the M2 junction 5 sign coastbound was still "wonky" - and on the new sign the "Sheppey" destination text changed to Sheerness.

I was only 5 or 6 when it changed, though, and didn't think much of it. It's only a few decades later I realised the significance!

(I'd imagine that would have been one of the original 60s signs, mounted as it was on three upright concrete pillars. That means it lasted just over 20 years, not bad going.)

[Bryn666]

They were taken out of design rules in 1964 with the new TSRGD but the M6 J32-33 was the last motorway to open with them as they'd already been designed before the regs came into force on 1 Jan 1965 (the motorway there opened in Jan 1965). The southbound motorways merge sign at j32 was Anderson vintage until it was removed around 2002; this was the last surviving example on the motorway network.

Your Australian example is brilliant; not least also because it has an old NSW freeway shield that was based on the Interstate shield (except instead of INTERSTATE IN the red banner it read FREEWAY).

[Berk]

Maybe an obvious point had been missed: which is, why was the arrow slanted at all?? It’s as if it was mirroring a specific junction, which indeed curved to the right, but instead was applied across the whole network.

[Bryn666]

It's meant to be a drivers eye representation of the motorway going into the distance with a slip road branching off.

They realised this didn't really work which is why they got rid if it.

[Patrick Harper]

CRDB reckons some "wonky" signs lasted until the 1990s.

Do you mean CBRD? lol

[Bryn666]

CRDB reckons some "wonky" signs lasted until the 1990s.

I remember in the mid 80s the M2 junction 5 sign coastbound was still "wonky" - and on the new sign the "Sheppey" destination text changed to Sheerness.

I was only 5 or 6 when it changed, though, and didn't think much of it. It's only a few decades later I realised the significance!

(I'd imagine that would have been one of the original 60s signs, mounted as it was on three upright concrete pillars. That means it lasted just over 20 years, not bad going.)

We think the last surviving wonky fork sign was on the M4 at Slough. Sadly this was the era when no-one took pictures

[wrinkly]

Maybe an obvious point had been missed: which is, why was the arrow slanted at all?? It’s as if it was mirroring a specific junction, which indeed curved to the right, but instead was applied across the whole network.

It's meant to be a drivers eye representation of the motorway going into the distance with a slip road branching off.

Doesn't sound a very convincing reason. However it did allow the representation of the straight-ahead route to be a bit more central to the sign instead of at the right edge.

[Bryn666]

It's para 89 of the Anderson report, I quote:

It will be seen that in the junction symbols in each of these signs, the arm representing the motorway is just off vertical. This not only gives prominence to the arm representing the motorway ahead by separating it clearly from the border, but in our view improves the design by making it more telling. We do not consider that any difficulty will result from the use of this design at a site where the actual alignment of the motorway may differ from that which the symbol might be taken to suggest.

So partly as you say, but mainly because it did indeed want to emphasise the motorway going ahead.

[RichardA626]

CRDB reckons some "wonky" signs lasted until the 1990s.

Do you mean CBRD? lol

Yes I got them in the wrong order.

[wrinkly]

I seem to remember that the original final exit sign here, and the corresponding southbound one, showed the straight-ahead route with a curve in it.

Of course this was some years after the off-vertical signs stopped being used on new schemes.

[Bryn666]

You're right; there also was an M6 sign in the diverge gore because I think drivers kept overshooting onto the slip road instead of staying on the mainline.

It was replaced about 12 years ago.

[jonnyf90]

There's a copy-cat wonky sign on the A3 S/B approaching the A31 junction HERE

[wrinkly]

there also was an M6 sign in the diverge gore because I think drivers kept overshooting onto the slip road instead of staying on the mainline.

And indeed still is (or was in 2016).

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.32931 ... 312!8i6656

[Johnathan404]

You're right; there also was an M6 sign in the diverge gore because I think drivers kept overshooting onto the slip road instead of staying on the mainline.

Good to know there is a reason for it, but I'm still not convinced that somebody who didn't see the D3M is going to see that gore sign!

It's also good to see that between the 2009 and 2016 Street View images, but the direction sign for the Western Dales has been corrected so that it gives a direction, and additional signs have been added with an ordinary grey backing board. Small mercies.

There's a copy-cat wonky sign on the A3 S/B approaching the A31 junction HERE

It's well established that the Guildford Bypass is woefully sub-standard compared to the rest of the A3 expressway, but every time I get to the Hog's Back travelling south (usually at night and usually at *redacted*mph), I'm taken aback by just how sharp and narrow it is.