Inadequate M32 signage leads to fines overturned

[Pilgrim Dan]

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bris ... st-2115760

The M32 bus slip road has been rules as having inadequate signage and leads to innocent motorists being fined as there is no escape.

Since the Metrobus only slip-road has opened 10,000 motorists have been fined for driving through the bus gate, and now a ruling means they can be overturned after an appeal. The adjudicator believes the signage and layout is inadequate and motorists have no choice but to use the bus gate to escape.

[boliston]

'fine' rather than 'fines'

[Bryn666]

I'm torn on this, as there are three huge ADS in advance of the bus slip road. Where the signage is rubbish is at the actual slip road exit itself.

Still it isn't the first time the TPT has taken chancers at face value so...

[Glen]

You do have to wonder what additional signage would possibly help someone who uses this slip road.
There could be a pair of no entry signs at the actual diverge, but they would be too late to take action.

He drives an old Discovery, so he's clearly a

[Pilgrim Dan]

Anybody want to comment on tonygah's assertion in the comments that the signs are illegal by not being descriptive to chapter 3 Road Traffic Act Regulatory Signage 2008?

[Glen]

Authorisation of them is here: http://assets.dft.gov.uk/trafficauths/case-4555.pdf

[Chris5156]

You do have to wonder what additional signage would possibly help someone who uses this slip road.
There could be a pair of no entry signs at the actual diverge, but they would be too late to take action.

I wondered whether the sliproad could be marked differently - perhaps opening up on the left as a bus lane, with solid white line and "BUS LANE" markings, rather than standard diverge taper. That would presumably need a further special authorisation for use on a motorway.

[ANiceEnglishman]

You do have to wonder what additional signage would possibly help someone who uses this slip road.
There could be a pair of no entry signs at the actual diverge, but they would be too late to take action.

I wondered whether the sliproad could be marked differently - perhaps opening up on the left as a bus lane, with solid white line and "BUS LANE" markings, rather than standard diverge taper. That would presumably need a further special authorisation for use on a motorway.

I suppose that might be considered a potential hazard with drivers who missed the signs noticing the markings and veering back onto the main carriageway?

[M19]

In urban areas bus lanes have thick taper entry markings, no why not use them here as they are different, rather than the all purpose diverge markings?

There was a problem similar to this on John Dodson Street in Newcastle. A stretch recently restricted for buses is marked like a conventional road and led to a disproportionate number of fines. A thick continuous line that normally defines a bus lane, in this case for opposing flows, would have sent a clear visual cue, reinforcing the restrictions, than just a few signs.

The cynic in me suspects that the markings used may have been deliberate, in being normal and not is away that makes bus lanes obvious to encourage driver error and hence generate a nice income from fines. The fines from drivers using John Dodson Street pretty much paid for the cost of the improvements.

Bristol isn't renowned for being a car loving city. On motorways, you don't expect to come across restrictions on junction exits. Even with the best signage in the world, you need to reinforce this with different markings.

[Johnathan404]

I have a tiny element of sympathy here.

The ADSs are clear, but they are easily ignored as they don't really contain any useful information. The actual exit has no clear warnings, although they'd need to be pretty big to deter you from turning in.

I don't doubt that you'd have to be pretty stupid to make the mistake, but it's not in the top 50 stupid things British drivers do.

Ideally the exit should be marked like the start of a bus lane, maybe with a red surface. Also drivers should be given a second chance to turn back at the end of the sliproad without being fined - the frustration of being sent back into Bristol would surely be a more effective lesson than any fine! The signage would effectively say "no, you've got it wrong, do it again", and they can keep doing the three mile round-trip until they learn to take the correct exit.

[Bomag]

There are prescribed signs for a bus lane, but they used a no entry sign which implies that traffic can use it in the opposite direction.

[someone]

I also think that there should be a brief lane gain to the left clearly marked as a bus lane, with a different colour surface, when then drops rather than having a diverge from the main carriageway. It would be very clear to anyone who missed the signs from the layout.

Instead it sounds as though the slip road is legally a normal unrestricted road (the motorway ends as it diverges). Despite the destination signs, there are none on the road itself to make them official. So any traffic can legally use it, but is then left in a position of no safe escape from contravening the bus lane when it reaches the end of it. Which lead to an obvious ruling.

I guess that approach is simpler administratively than putting a brief section of bus lane on the motorway.

But it seems easy to fix, putting the bus lane cameras on the road connecting the roundabout to the local road network will still catch everyone trying to use it as a short cut. But anyone who genuinely makes a mistake can safely get back on the motorway, and are penalized into not doing it again by having to head south to the next junction to rejoin the northbound carriageway.

Sounds like a non-story really, some drivers are stupid and council punished for unnecessary mistake.

Though the council must have realized. I am guessing the reason the slip road is not designated a bus lane is because it would have left other traffic no where to go as it was already off the motorway. So how could the bus lane legally start on a roundabout?

Difficult to understand how so many drivers did it, either. My best guess is that if you travel on a road often enough you do not read the signs. And as it is only half a mile before the normal junction it could "feel" the right time to be turning off when you see the diverge marking.

[Lockwood]

Could this be a problem that could be solved with Flowsignals?

[ais523]

The obvious fix is to make it legal for non-buses to use the slip road, but not to leave the motorway at the junction. (This is comparable to "inescapably leads to a motorway" signage when in fact there's a roundabout that lets you turn round and come back the way you came.) So all you need to do is to direct non-buses to do a loop of the roundabout and rejoin the motorway.

The advantage of this is that the "main" / legally enforceable bus lane signage would be at a roundabout where vehicles are travelling at low speed, not at a motorway diverge where it would just be confusing.

I'd imagine that there'd be an ADS at the top of the slip road showing a roundabout with two arms (the bus lane and the U-turn exit), with the bus lane marked "Buses only" along with one of those blue circular buses-only signs, the U-turn exit marked "All other traffic". That seems very hard to misinterpret. The roundabout exit itself would have buses-only signs and BUS LANE markings on the carriageway (and probably a flag sign saying "Buses only" too).

[Pilgrim Dan]

It's unclear as to whether the ANPR camera is on the sliproad itself, or the bus gate at the end as there are no pictures of the cameras themselves. What there is, is a video taken from a bus coming off the motorway and across the bridge (which ends as it get to the other side) which shows no evidence of a camera, and a still photo of the bus gate that does show a camera.

Now these could have changed since it was opened, but based on that there is an escape route of u-turning and returning to the M32 at the roundabout before the bus gate and there are signs to tell you to do that.

So I am confused as to whether people are actually being fined for using the sliproad or for driving through the bus gate.

[someone]

It's unclear as to whether the ANPR camera is on the sliproad itself… but based on that there is an escape route of u-turning and returning to the M32 at the roundabout before the bus gate and there are signs to tell you to do that.

The roundabout is part of the bus lane, the slip road is not. It is explained in the story in the decision of the adjudicator.

If a driver enters the slip road… the only way to correct the mistake is to use the roundabout in the bus lane and take the second exit to immediately leave the bus lane and join the southbound M32… Indeed, [Mr. Stevenson] had passed a sign on the slip road that directed use of the roundabout to get back to the M32. This sign invites use of the roundabout, without showing that it lies just inside a bus lane.

[ais523]

Is there a location on the exit slip road that's a) not under motorway regulations and b) not a bus lane? If not, then you can't legally stop and can't legally continue, which would be a fairly nonsensical situation. If so, then the "correct" thing to do would be to stop just short of the roundabout (blocking the buses), and when asked to move, explain that you couldn't legally move onto the roundabout. (That would hopefully get the restrictions fixed pretty quickly!)

It's pretty nonsensical to have the roundabout be a bus lane, though, when its only useful purpose is as an escape route for non-buses.

I agree with the adjudicator that the logical implication of the signs is that the roundabout exists for non-bus traffic to avoid entering the bus lane, and thus drivers would be likely to believe that they could safely use the roundabout to avoid trouble.

[mikehindsonevans]

You do have to wonder what additional signage would possibly help someone who uses this slip road.
There could be a pair of no entry signs at the actual diverge, but they would be too late to take action.

I wondered whether the sliproad could be marked differently - perhaps opening up on the left as a bus lane, with solid white line and "BUS LANE" markings, rather than standard diverge taper. That would presumably need a further special authorisation for use on a motorway.

I suppose that might be considered a potential hazard with drivers who missed the signs noticing the markings and veering back onto the main carriageway?

We already have this here in Hampshire, where there are TWO exits (both marked "J13" on the gantries) within 400yds of each other on the southbound carriageway of the M3. As I have previously posted, the "last-second swerve" is a well-known local phenomenon and (although G*d knows how) has not yet resulted in a fatality/bump/underwear change (no, I can't measure that last category!). The "swerve" allows sleepy/confused road users to avoid Eastleigh and proceed onwards towards Bournemouth.

But as to how you stop numpties taking the first exit in Bristol - sorry mate, you're on your own; perhaps a sign further down saying "Escape Lane"?

[nowster]

The fork sign has a "No Entry" roundel on it. That's informative not proscriptive. That prohibition needs to be reinforced with a pair of No Entry signs or, more appropriately, "Bus Only" blue signs at the gore.

[nickoli]

The obvious fix is to make it legal for non-buses to use the slip road, but not to leave the motorway at the junction. (This is comparable to "inescapably leads to a motorway" signage when in fact there's a roundabout that lets you turn round and come back the way you came.) So all you need to do is to direct non-buses to do a loop of the roundabout and rejoin the motorway.

One of the signs (labelled s3.1 on the authorisation) implies that this is the case, and it seems that if you turn around there and return to the motorway, you've gained nothing, so I'm not sure I can see justifying issuing a penalty, but I also can't see how you'd miss the signs on the approach.

One of the photos on the Bristol Post page shows a 15 mph speed limit sign on it as well.