Traffic lights that are never not on green

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jervi
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Re: Traffic lights that are never not on green

Post by jervi »

Jonathan24 wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 23:38
jervi wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 22:40 https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.79885 ... 384!8i8192
Ahead and Left are always green with no stop line. Only right turns are controlled.
Surely there is a better way to design this junction!
It could always be done like this, but I don't think it is completely satisfactory either:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.61219 ... 384!8i8192
I was thinking more of reducing the A29 to a single lane and then provide a phsyical barrier between the ahead and right turn lane and then only have signals on the right turn lane. Since they would be physically seperated it would be less likely to cause an issue. Also since the through route would only be 1 lane its not like people will whip out into the other lane if some mis-reads the signal and stops. The A29 here really only needs to have 1 lane, maybe widening to two lanes at junctions to allow effecient stacking. Traffic along here is fairly low for a urban D2 at 20k.
Or alterantivly they could put a pedestrain crossing across both carriageways, making better use of the junction.
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traffic-light-man
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Re: Traffic lights that are never not on green

Post by traffic-light-man »

jervi wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 22:40 https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.79885 ... 384!8i8192
Ahead and Left are always green with no stop line. Only right turns are controlled.
Surely there is a better way to design this junction!
That 606 box sign can go, for starters! :roll: It's enough of a blood-boiling botch to have different directions of 606 for the same stop line, but to have one paired with an ahead/left green arrow is just mind boggling.

Of course, the only legal was to display such things are to use full RAG heads and just have the greens showing at all times. I imagine there's an argument that if you're going to have a signal head, it should be able to change to red when the all-red is active, irrespective of its normal state - which would mean it needs an associated stop line.

I always wonder how these things are wired up. There's a a few different options I can think of, which would result in different results should things not be 'normal'.
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Re: Traffic lights that are never not on green

Post by JohnnyMo »

jervi wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 22:40 https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.79885 ... 384!8i8192
Ahead and Left are always green with no stop line. Only right turns are controlled.
Surely there is a better way to design this junction!
How about this A2
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M4Mark
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Re: Traffic lights that are never not on green

Post by M4Mark »

traffic-light-man wrote: Sat Mar 06, 2021 09:53 Of course, the only legal was to display such things are to use full RAG heads and just have the greens showing at all times. I imagine there's an argument that if you're going to have a signal head, it should be able to change to red when the all-red is active, irrespective of its normal state - which would mean it needs an associated stop line.

I always wonder how these things are wired up. There's a a few different options I can think of, which would result in different results should things not be 'normal'.
Usually the green arrow is wired as a separate phase, the phase could be configured to either appear green in all stages including All Red or configured to extinguish in All Red as well.

Here's an example https://goo.gl/maps/NvEwTQQHjTLyijo88 with a single green arrow at 45 degrees as part of the primary signal head for the right turn, if you look on streetview history in 2008 you can see it was an ahead arrow before it was refurbished.

Here's another example https://goo.gl/maps/BiFMp59TRxaA2v4B9 with two standalone green arrows on left and one on right fitted as part of the secondary signal head for the right turn. The layout is about 25 years old but the equipment is newer than that. My preference would be to remove the ones on the left and just have the one arrow fitted to the secondary signal head.
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Re: Traffic lights that are never not on green

Post by Bryn666 »

M4Mark wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 17:09
traffic-light-man wrote: Sat Mar 06, 2021 09:53 Of course, the only legal was to display such things are to use full RAG heads and just have the greens showing at all times. I imagine there's an argument that if you're going to have a signal head, it should be able to change to red when the all-red is active, irrespective of its normal state - which would mean it needs an associated stop line.

I always wonder how these things are wired up. There's a a few different options I can think of, which would result in different results should things not be 'normal'.
Usually the green arrow is wired as a separate phase, the phase could be configured to either appear green in all stages including All Red or configured to extinguish in All Red as well.

Here's an example https://goo.gl/maps/NvEwTQQHjTLyijo88 with a single green arrow at 45 degrees as part of the primary signal head for the right turn, if you look on streetview history in 2008 you can see it was an ahead arrow before it was refurbished.

Here's another example https://goo.gl/maps/BiFMp59TRxaA2v4B9 with two standalone green arrows on left and one on right fitted as part of the secondary signal head for the right turn. The layout is about 25 years old but the equipment is newer than that. My preference would be to remove the ones on the left and just have the one arrow fitted to the secondary signal head.
Before we fixed it Halifax had this horror:

https://goo.gl/maps/bP6WGffdGEHVUomJ6
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Chris Bertram
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Re: Traffic lights that are never not on green

Post by Chris Bertram »

Bryn666 wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 16:08
M4Mark wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 17:09
traffic-light-man wrote: Sat Mar 06, 2021 09:53 Of course, the only legal was to display such things are to use full RAG heads and just have the greens showing at all times. I imagine there's an argument that if you're going to have a signal head, it should be able to change to red when the all-red is active, irrespective of its normal state - which would mean it needs an associated stop line.

I always wonder how these things are wired up. There's a a few different options I can think of, which would result in different results should things not be 'normal'.
Usually the green arrow is wired as a separate phase, the phase could be configured to either appear green in all stages including All Red or configured to extinguish in All Red as well.

Here's an example https://goo.gl/maps/NvEwTQQHjTLyijo88 with a single green arrow at 45 degrees as part of the primary signal head for the right turn, if you look on streetview history in 2008 you can see it was an ahead arrow before it was refurbished.

Here's another example https://goo.gl/maps/BiFMp59TRxaA2v4B9 with two standalone green arrows on left and one on right fitted as part of the secondary signal head for the right turn. The layout is about 25 years old but the equipment is newer than that. My preference would be to remove the ones on the left and just have the one arrow fitted to the secondary signal head.
Before we fixed it Halifax had this horror:

https://goo.gl/maps/bP6WGffdGEHVUomJ6
Fixed it how? By removing it altogether?
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Re: Traffic lights that are never not on green

Post by Bryn666 »

Chris Bertram wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 16:15
Bryn666 wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 16:08
M4Mark wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 17:09
Usually the green arrow is wired as a separate phase, the phase could be configured to either appear green in all stages including All Red or configured to extinguish in All Red as well.

Here's an example https://goo.gl/maps/NvEwTQQHjTLyijo88 with a single green arrow at 45 degrees as part of the primary signal head for the right turn, if you look on streetview history in 2008 you can see it was an ahead arrow before it was refurbished.

Here's another example https://goo.gl/maps/BiFMp59TRxaA2v4B9 with two standalone green arrows on left and one on right fitted as part of the secondary signal head for the right turn. The layout is about 25 years old but the equipment is newer than that. My preference would be to remove the ones on the left and just have the one arrow fitted to the secondary signal head.
Before we fixed it Halifax had this horror:

https://goo.gl/maps/bP6WGffdGEHVUomJ6
Fixed it how? By removing it altogether?
Widened the roundabout and removed the vehicle rollover hazard that was an ill-thought out left turn lane as well as poor visibility with other signalised arms as part of a S278 from a development. There hasn't been a KSI injury collision on the roundabout since it was done in 2012, several slights but this is to be expected with signal controlled roundabouts. Before this it was Halifax's worst junction for serious collisions.
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traffic-light-man
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Re: Traffic lights that are never not on green

Post by traffic-light-man »

M4Mark wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 17:09Usually the green arrow is wired as a separate phase, the phase could be configured to either appear green in all stages including All Red or configured to extinguish in All Red as well.
Thanks for that, Mark. I hadn't seen anything to do with permanent filters before, but I've managed to locate one and looking at the config, it's exactly how you describe. It's been wired as a separate phase, appearing in every stage. No mention of it appearing in the All Red though, so presumably it will just switch off as per a 'regular' filter.
Simon
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