I'm not sure whether any reliable polling has ever been carried out as to what "the Welsh" (a phrase the Welsh Assembly Government is keen to avoid using BTW, preferring "people of Wales" or similar) feel about this matter, but I am aware of a current of sentiment in the anglophone southern regions that views the Welsh Language Acts and associated measures as costly job creation schemes.
In case anyone reading this has children looking at subject choices and career prospects, fluency in Welsh coupled to a decent degree would make them a shoo-in for a secure public sector job with tidy pension entitlement. If that's what you/they are after.
Jealous are we? Welsh can be learnt pretty easily, and there are lots of courses available, especially for adults. This idea that Welsh is a burden on the taxpayer is a total myth, especially when private businesses find that using Welsh attracts customers
Not jealous, just an observation. Depends what any individu wants to do in life.
Daily Post is a Gog paper and my previous comment related to Taff sentiment, so 2 different points of view.
Is there any serious reliable polling on the subject?
Considering that's based on a Welsh Language Commissioner report rather than just the DP's own reporting means its reasonably serious.
As for "Taff", that's getting a bit insulting now. Not everyone is incapable of pronouncing the name of the Afon Tâf, and most don't live that close to it.
Steven wrote: ↑Wed Dec 05, 2018 13:03
None of the above are official languages with the same legal status as Welsh within Wales, so the Asian language thing is entirely a red herring.
Not really. I'm pointing out that the "it's my government" argument is not one that carries a huge amount of weight. The Welsh assembly could vote tomorrow to derecognise Welsh as an official language (don't worry, it's not going to), and rhyds would have no comeback on that before the next election, but it would still be "his" government nonetheless.
As a popular T-shirt slogan here says:
"This is Wales. We speak Welsh. Get over it."
Except that a majority of the population don't, do they? They speak a distinctively Welsh variety of English. And are no less Welsh for that.
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Jealous are we? Welsh can be learnt pretty easily, and there are lots of courses available, especially for adults. This idea that Welsh is a burden on the taxpayer is a total myth, especially when private businesses find that using Welsh attracts customers
Not jealous, just an observation. Depends what any individu wants to do in life.
Daily Post is a Gog paper and my previous comment related to Taff sentiment, so 2 different points of view.
Is there any serious reliable polling on the subject?
Considering that's based on a Welsh Language Commissioner report rather than just the DP's own reporting means its reasonably serious.
As for "Taff", that's getting a bit insulting now. Not everyone is incapable of pronouncing the name of the Afon Tâf, and most don't live that close to it.
No intention to be insulting but north Wales and south Wales are very much 2 different countries (especially in road terms).
Not jealous, just an observation. Depends what any individu wants to do in life.
Daily Post is a Gog paper and my previous comment related to Taff sentiment, so 2 different points of view.
Is there any serious reliable polling on the subject?
Considering that's based on a Welsh Language Commissioner report rather than just the DP's own reporting means its reasonably serious.
As for "Taff", that's getting a bit insulting now. Not everyone is incapable of pronouncing the name of the Afon Tâf, and most don't live that close to it.
No intention to be insulting but north Wales and south Wales are very much 2 different countries (especially in road terms).
That wasn't the insulting bit! "Taff" is a name for confectionery, not people.
As for North and South Wales being different, they aren't as different as they once were politically, and as for roads its a question of population density rather than location. North East Wales/Deeside has the same challenges as some of the South Wales valleys for example.
Chris Bertram wrote: ↑Wed Dec 05, 2018 13:45
Not really. I'm pointing out that the "it's my government" argument is not one that carries a huge amount of weight. The Welsh assembly could vote tomorrow to derecognise Welsh as an official language (don't worry, it's not going to), and rhyds would have no comeback on that before the next election, but it would still be "his" government nonetheless.
As a popular T-shirt slogan here says:
"This is Wales. We speak Welsh. Get over it."
Except that a majority of the population don't, do they? They speak a distinctively Welsh variety of English. And are no less Welsh for that.
The majority of Birmingham can't play a musical instrument or hold a tune, yet they still have a Symphony Hall!
rhyds wrote: ↑Wed Dec 05, 2018 20:59
As a popular T-shirt slogan here says:
"This is Wales. We speak Welsh. Get over it."
Except that a majority of the population don't, do they? They speak a distinctively Welsh variety of English. And are no less Welsh for that.
The majority of Birmingham can't play a musical instrument or hold a tune, yet they still have a Symphony Hall!
And a very nice hall it is too, both to play in and be in the audience. But I'm not sure what relevance it has. The two Welsh speaking churches that I know of in Birmingham, however...
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rhyds wrote: ↑Wed Nov 28, 2018 08:29
Where there isn't an English translation of a name (e.g. Machynlleth, Dolgellau, Aberystwyth, Llangurig, Llangurig) there are Welsh-only monolingual signs.
As for English monolingual signs, very few survive. The early Worboys type monolingual signs were generally replaced pretty quickly as there was a defacement protest campaign against them, and most of the ones left are the very old pre-Worboys type with the absolutely horrendous anglicised names of towns on them (Aberayron for Aberaeron or Dolgelley for Dolgellau are two that really annoy).
You forgot Caernarvon, Portmadoc and Tremadoc There are also some place names which are English-only, particularly in South Pembrokeshire and in a few places around the border. One that's always puzzled me is Bow Street, just north of Aberystwyth. And Crosskeys in Blaenau Gwent is named after the hotel at the junction (the rugby club, however is Cross Keys). I daresay the committee for inventing Welsh place names is on the case now.
Caernarvon is the English spelling, Caernarfon the Welsh. I spotted this the frist time that I drove in Wales, especailly as teh "f" sticks out.
rhyds wrote: ↑Sun Dec 02, 2018 08:52
I'm not sure how signmaking worked back in the 1970s (as opposed to modern CAD systems) but it must be remembered that the original bilingual signage dates from back then, therefore it may have been deemed too difficult to provide colour differentiation back then and that's how the standard was set at the time.
Has the need for bilingual signage increased or decreased since the 1970s? How many people in Wales actually speak Welsh? More significantly, how many of those ONLY speak Welsh?
We may be catering for a small number of people, possibly all within a specific geographical area.
A few years ago, the United Kingdom Metric Association published a document showing how road signs in Wales could be simplified by applying the Vienna Convention more strictly.
rhyds wrote: ↑Wed Nov 28, 2018 08:29
Where there isn't an English translation of a name (e.g. Machynlleth, Dolgellau, Aberystwyth, Llangurig, Llangurig) there are Welsh-only monolingual signs.
As for English monolingual signs, very few survive. The early Worboys type monolingual signs were generally replaced pretty quickly as there was a defacement protest campaign against them, and most of the ones left are the very old pre-Worboys type with the absolutely horrendous anglicised names of towns on them (Aberayron for Aberaeron or Dolgelley for Dolgellau are two that really annoy).
You forgot Caernarvon, Portmadoc and Tremadoc There are also some place names which are English-only, particularly in South Pembrokeshire and in a few places around the border. One that's always puzzled me is Bow Street, just north of Aberystwyth. And Crosskeys in Blaenau Gwent is named after the hotel at the junction (the rugby club, however is Cross Keys). I daresay the committee for inventing Welsh place names is on the case now.
Caernarvon is the English spelling, Caernarfon the Welsh. I spotted this the frist time that I drove in Wales, especailly as teh "f" sticks out.
There is no lettter 'v' in Welsh, hence the spelling of Caernarfon. This led to difficulties at Varteg where the villagers objected to the proposed Welsh spelling starting with 'F' and the matter was dropped.
You can find any answers you want on the Internet. Some of them may even be correct.
Vierwielen wrote: ↑Thu Feb 28, 2019 22:47
Caernarvon is the English spelling, Caernarfon the Welsh. I spotted this the frist time that I drove in Wales, especailly as teh "f" sticks out.
Why's the peer named after the place called the Earl of Carnarvon then?
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Vierwielen wrote: ↑Thu Feb 28, 2019 22:47
Caernarvon is the English spelling, Caernarfon the Welsh. I spotted this the frist time that I drove in Wales, especailly as teh "f" sticks out.
Why's the peer named after the place called the Earl of Carnarvon then?
rhyds wrote: ↑Sun Dec 02, 2018 08:52
I'm not sure how signmaking worked back in the 1970s (as opposed to modern CAD systems) but it must be remembered that the original bilingual signage dates from back then, therefore it may have been deemed too difficult to provide colour differentiation back then and that's how the standard was set at the time.
Has the need for bilingual signage increased or decreased since the 1970s? How many people in Wales actually speak Welsh? More significantly, how many of those ONLY speak Welsh?
We may be catering for a small number of people, possibly all within a specific geographical area.
A few years ago, the United Kingdom Metric Association published a document showing how road signs in Wales could be simplified by applying the Vienna Convention more strictly.
Also other countries simply use an upturned red triangle for give way signs, is the UK the only country to have words?
Vierwielen wrote: ↑Thu Feb 28, 2019 22:47
Caernarvon is the English spelling, Caernarfon the Welsh. I spotted this the frist time that I drove in Wales, especailly as teh "f" sticks out.
Why's the peer named after the place called the Earl of Carnarvon then?
Because the town is Cymraeg, while the peerage is English...
trigpoint wrote:
Also other countries simply use an upturned red triangle for give way signs, is the UK the only country to have words?
Nope. France has words at least on the roundabout variant. Ireland has YIELD. Not sure about the USA.
The USA has more worded signs than diagrammatic signs.
Although having said that, they don't really even have the concept of "give way". Even minor suburban roads usually have STOP signs at every junction. The only place I have found a "give way" is at roundabouts/rotaries, where they do indeed say YIELD inside the triangle.
trigpoint wrote:
Also other countries simply use an upturned red triangle for give way signs, is the UK the only country to have words?
Nope. France has words at least on the roundabout variant. Ireland has YIELD. Not sure about the USA.
The French triangle is blank, though. It's the plate below that says "Vous n'avez pas la priorité".
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Vierwielen wrote: ↑Thu Feb 28, 2019 22:47
Caernarvon is the English spelling, Caernarfon the Welsh. I spotted this the frist time that I drove in Wales, especailly as teh "f" sticks out.
Why's the peer named after the place called the Earl of Carnarvon then?
True, so how come Caernarfon isn't the English spelling?
Because there was a concerted effort to change "difficult" Welsh names (generally by railway companies) to more easily pronounced English "phonetic" spellings (phonetic if you're a drunk Brummie). Unfortunately these seem to have stuck over the years.
True, so how come Caernarfon isn't the English spelling?
Because there was a concerted effort to change "difficult" Welsh names (generally by railway companies) to more easily pronounced English "phonetic" spellings (phonetic if you're a drunk Brummie). Unfortunately these seem to have stuck over the years.
So you're saying that since I'm English I'm not allowed to call the place Caernarfon. No problem.
"If you expect nothing from somebody you are never disappointed." - Sylvia Plath
Welsh can be learnt pretty easily, and there are lots of courses available, especially for adults. This idea that Welsh is a burden on the taxpayer is a total myth, especially when private businesses find that using Welsh attracts customers
There are also some place names which are English-only, particularly in South Pembrokeshire and in a few places around the border. One that's always puzzled me is Bow Street, just north of Aberystwyth. And Crosskeys in Blaenau Gwent is named after the hotel at the junction (the rugby club, however is Cross Keys). I daresay the committee for inventing Welsh place names is on the case now.
