Updated Traffic Signs Manual

[Conekicker]

Chapters 1, 3, 4, 5 and 7 uploaded today:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... gns-manual

[yen_powell]

They've not rushed have they. Three years after the regs.

[Conekicker]

Frankly, considering how few people are in post at DfT these days with sufficient signing knowledge, I think they've done very well.

[yen_powell]

Reading time at work tomorrow, if I can get a printer to work for me that is. I seem to get on better with a printed page rather than a PC screen.

[Chris56000]

Hi!

What about Chapter 2, "Design of Directional and Informatory Signs" and Chapter 6, "Traffic Control?"

Chapter 2 has had nothing but a (very outdated!) list of Primary Destinations for over five years and not a sniff of Chapter 6!

What's taking the DfT so long?

(Mind you, we have got a new Chapter 1 now – we had to make do with a withdrawn one for long enough!)

If the Irish can produce a full set of TSM Documents in one go, (The Irish TSM dates from 2010 and is complete) why can't we?

Chris Williams

[Bomag]

Hi!

What about Chapter 2, "Design of Directional and Informatory Signs" and Chapter 6, "Traffic Control?"

Chapter 2 has had nothing but a (very outdated!) list of Primary Destinations for over five years and not a sniff of Chapter 6!

What's taking the DfT so long?

(Mind you, we have got a new Chapter 1 now – we had to make do with a withdrawn one for long enough!)

If the Irish can produce a full set of TSM Documents in one go, (The Irish TSM dates from 2010 and is complete) why can't we?

Chris Williams

How many people do you think are actually working on updating the TSM?

As for Chapter 2 go and read IAN 144 and 145, that is the nearest you are going to get in a while.

[Bryn666]

Hi!

What about Chapter 2, "Design of Directional and Informatory Signs" and Chapter 6, "Traffic Control?"

Chapter 2 has had nothing but a (very outdated!) list of Primary Destinations for over five years and not a sniff of Chapter 6!

What's taking the DfT so long?

(Mind you, we have got a new Chapter 1 now – we had to make do with a withdrawn one for long enough!)

If the Irish can produce a full set of TSM Documents in one go, (The Irish TSM dates from 2010 and is complete) why can't we?

Chris Williams

How many people do you think are actually working on updating the TSM?

As for Chapter 2 go and read IAN 144 and 145, that is the nearest you are going to get in a while.

I thought most of IAN 144/145 was now in Chapter 7, making Chapter 2 even less likely. Maybe, in some alternative world where there are more than three people working in traffic signs policy, Chapter 2 could be devoted to things like cycling infrastructure and other 'non-road' features that everyone makes a total dog's dinner of.

[Conekicker]

I thought most of IAN 144/145 was now in Chapter 7, making Chapter 2 even less likely. Maybe, in some alternative world where there are more than three people working in traffic signs policy, Chapter 2 could be devoted to things like cycling infrastructure and other 'non-road' features that everyone makes a total dog's dinner of.

I haven't read it cover to cover, (yet, ), but I'm pretty sure there's nothing from 144/145 in 7. Just a few bits on the new directional sign types and one or two slightly expanded sections to clarify the odd thing here and there.

[RichardA35]

Chapter 6 published today - Traffic Control (i.e. signals)

[Conekicker]

Wasn't expecting that until the new year, "Well done DfT".

[Debaser]

Hi!

What about Chapter 2, "Design of Directional and Informatory Signs" and Chapter 6, "Traffic Control?"

Chapter 2 has had nothing but a (very outdated!) list of Primary Destinations for over five years and not a sniff of Chapter 6!

What's taking the DfT so long?

(Mind you, we have got a new Chapter 1 now – we had to make do with a withdrawn one for long enough!)

If the Irish can produce a full set of TSM Documents in one go, (The Irish TSM dates from 2010 and is complete) why can't we?

Chris Williams

How many people do you think are actually working on updating the TSM?

As for Chapter 2 go and read IAN 144 and 145, that is the nearest you are going to get in a while.

I thought most of IAN 144/145 was now in Chapter 7, making Chapter 2 even less likely. Maybe, in some alternative world where there are more than three people working in traffic signs policy, Chapter 2 could be devoted to things like cycling infrastructure and other 'non-road' features that everyone makes a total dog's dinner of.

A colleague queried the withdrawal of IAN 144, especially as CD 146 only covers motorways and not all-purpose trunk roads and got this as part of the reply;

III. Highways England are seeking formal transfer of guidance and national best practice contained within IAN 144 to the department, to form the basis of a new Traffic Signs Manual; Chapter 2 ( Directional Informatory Signs on Motorways and All-purpose Trunk Roads)

[Debaser]

Chapter 6 published today - Traffic Control (i.e. signals)

198 pages! So much for "Simplify and then add lightness".

[Arcuarius]

Chapter 6 published today - Traffic Control (i.e. signals)

198 pages! So much for "Simplify and then add lightness".

Chapter 7 is longer...

[Debaser]

Chapter 6 published today - Traffic Control (i.e. signals)

198 pages! So much for "Simplify and then add lightness".

Chapter 7 is longer...

Don't get me started on that. Or any of the others - whoever chose the formatting needs to go on a course in producing readable documents.

[jervi]

Chapter 6 published today - Traffic Control (i.e. signals)

Juicy!!!! How long is it gonna take to read cover to cover?

[RichardA35]

Chapter 6 published today - Traffic Control (i.e. signals)

Juicy!!!! How long is it gonna take to read cover to cover?

Why not give it a try then come back if there are any parts that are unclear to you.

[jervi]

Noticed this on Wednesday https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.30580 ... 384!8i8192
I thought it seemed wrong to have a mandatory proceed left and ahead on the same sign. Despite it not seeming right, the chapter doesn't say its wrong? Surely you don't need the left and ahead mandatory roundels and just the arrow aspects?

Also, potentially the last tunnel to get wig-wag signals: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.50242 ... 384!8i8192
They were installed in 2017, and the new manual says

Tunnel sites with existing wig‑wag installations may remain in place until the equipment reaches the end of its life.

[yen_powell]

Chapter 6 published today - Traffic Control (i.e. signals)

Had a quick look through. When the new Chapter 5 came out I couldn't work out why the zebra crossing stuff had been taken out of it. It's all been chucked into the Chapter 6 is the answer.

[Steven]

What is going on with the list of Primary Destinations in England that's published as part of that lot?

It has the additions and removals from 2012, so Stone and Northwich are both in, and Tilbury is out. The 2009 changes are all in there; so Manchester Airport is in; Workington is out.

But...

The 2011 changes are missing! So no Birmingham Airport, no East Midlands Airport, no Minehead or Colne.

[Bryn666]

What is going on with the list of Primary Destinations in England that's published as part of that lot?

It has the additions and removals from 2012, so Stone and Northwich are both in, and Tilbury is out. The 2009 changes are all in there; so Manchester Airport is in; Workington is out.

But...

The 2011 changes are missing! So no Birmingham Airport, no East Midlands Airport, no Minehead or Colne.

LTN 1/94 is still seen as gospel in that regard. Which is worrying. It probably will work its way into Chapter 2 some time in 2079.