Wait/cross signal

[Chris584]

This turned up on ebay under the heading of railway signal, so as the only bidder I snapped it up. Had the seller put it under traffic lights I'm sure there would've been more interest. Haven't seen one of these for sale before. I have the casing for one of these, but no lenses and it needs a good bit of work to make good. I will probably sell that as someone may have lenses and the time to restore it. So, just a SGE "cross now" one to complete my collection. I won't hold my breath though.

[WHBM]

I suspect it actually is a railway signal, for passengers/staff to use a foot crossing at stations. They became common, and each one seemed to be a different pattern. The SGE "Wait/Cross Now" pedestrian crossing light was different.

[AndyB]

When you get it home, compare it to a tin lantern, which also existed.

[Chris Bertram]

When you get it home, compare it to a tin lantern, which also existed.

Looks pretty tin-lanterny to me. Is the "CROSS" lens white, as it seems to be from the photo? Sometimes they were green.

[Chris584]

I have the signal at home. It's a Plessey tin head type and is a pedestrian crossing light predating the red & green men. The cross lens is white, and both lenses have the words embossed on the inside with the rest blacked out (paint?). I'll post some more pics later today showing the inside of the lenses. SGE lenses were different being of the fresnel style with no embossed wording, unlike the stop lens, but with the words formed by some sort of masking (again, paint?). An SGE crossing light would just about make my little collection complete.

[Chris584]

More pictures as promised.

[Chris584]

[Chris584]

[nowster]

TIAW!

[traffic-light-man]

Fantastic example of a later tin pedestrian lantern, pre-figures, of course.

I'm sure if I'd have noticed this, I'd definitely have tried to purchase it, but I'm glad it's gone to a fellow collector who'll appreciate it!

Having done some recent research of old images of Liverpool, the city certainly had many pedestrian signals like this. However some appear to have the middle aspect, just blacked out, which is something I've not seen on any pictures elsewhere.

There is a collector in the US who had a three aspect tin with WAIT/amber/CROSS lenses in his. I always assumed the WAIT and CROSS lenses had been installed in a standard three-aspect for display purposes, but I'm wondering if it might have been one of these and in fact the amber lens was the erroneous one.

The other lens style had green 'CROSS' aspects, I believe Birmingham were a big user of this style.

[Chris584]

I've never seen a green "CROSS" light in London. At Shepherd's Bush there was at least one with a blanking plate over the middle light. On a tin head on the north side of Waterloo Bridge the red light stated "DONT CROSS" on two lines (no apostrophe), and the other "CROSS NOW" on two lines. All the SGEs I ever saw said "WAIT" and "CROSS NOW", or just a single cross now light. I recall in South London single SGE lights for crossing that had a plain red lens. This worked opposite to cross now lights in that it remained lit until you were allowed to cross when it went out. Presumably bulb failure meant possible death or injury if you mistook it as being safe to cross!
I've always liked traffic lights since I was a kid and recall quite a few different things about various installations from odd visors through to matchstick men crossings in Harringay near where I used to live. I might try to list all the odd things one day.

[traffic-light-man]

I thought I had some photographic evidence saved somewhere of a green 'CROSS' lens, but I don't seem to be able to find it.

One of our US counterparts has this fantastic example in his collection.

I noted on one of Mike A's Flickr uploads of an old ATE catalogue, there is an option to have a full-red and 'Cross Now' combination. I wonder if this was the immediate successor to the 'DONT CROSS' signals after they decided pedestrians couldn't be told to not cross.

I also have this image saved, where the pedestrian signals appear to have full-circle red lenses (and short visors, interestingly). This could explain why!

[Chris584]

That signal in the USA is the same as the one I remember from Waterloo Bridge, and yes it's in great condition. Your picture is a delight. The small visors are probably because of clearance issues with passing vehicles. I've seen these in a couple of places in London with tin heads. I've seen some SGEs with short visors (the same as the crossing light ones) where they are very close to the road. All sadly gone.
I managed to find a copy of the ATM signals book that Mikey A has uploaded so pics from on to Flickr. It's quite interesting.

[traffic-light-man]

It's interesting to see how many tin heads come up in the US. They don't seem to get SGEs, but tins are fairly common by all accounts. I don't keep an eye on the US forums like I used to, so I don't know how many tins are currently collectively in the hands of collectors over there, but it was quite a lot.

I'd be interested to see how many collectors there are in the UK with tin & SGE lanterns. I often assume there must be more than just the few of use that frequent SABRE!

[Chris584]

Re USA collections: I imagine that tin heads probably lasted longer here and were probably still being installed later than SGEs, but the major thing is weight. Tin heads are much lighter, although I have two SGEs and one, (it once stood on the corner of Barking Road and Green Street, Upton Park), is heavier than the other which, I think is a later 1960s product. I have often thought of trying to do a swap of my "later" SGE with a US collector for a 3 or 4 way beacon (single light that flashes red one way and yellow the other). However, these days I think the postage costs would be horrendous.

[Chris Bertram]

Re USA collections: I imagine that tin heads probably lasted longer here and were probably still being installed later than SGEs, but the major thing is weight. Tin heads are much lighter, although I have two SGEs and one, (it once stood on the corner of Barking Road and Green Street, Upton Park), is heavier than the other which, I think is a later 1960s product. I have often thought of trying to do a swap of my "later" SGE with a US collector for a 3 or 4 way beacon (single light that flashes red one way and yellow the other). However, these days I think the postage costs would be horrendous.

The central square "stem" of an SGE is made of cast iron, isn't it? That would tend to make it heavy.

[traffic-light-man]

I have two SGEs and one, (it once stood on the corner of Barking Road and Green Street, Upton Park), is heavier than the other which, I think is a later 1960s product.

That's interesting! As Chris said, I assumed they were all cast iron, but is it possible that the later ones are steel instead? Not sure how much of a difference that would make in weight, though, all things considered!

Are they branded differently too, i.e. the older one 'SGE' and the newer one 'GEC' or 'GEC Elliott', or are they both branded the same?

[Chris584]

That's a good point Simon. I'll have a look as I think one is SGE and the other Elliot.
The tops are different as well. The older one has a more "domed" to and the later on a flatter top.

[Chris584]

Simon, regarding your picture above of the crossing light which shows a possible full red light, I've saved a picture on Pinterest that shows a crossing light in Brighton with what looks like a standard "STOP" lens, unless it's red with "WAIT" picked out in black. It's not clear enough to see when you zoom in on it. Problem is, I can't seem to save the picture to upload it here. Also from the same source is a picture of a very early SGE set of lights being shown as an early crossing signal with 3 lights for crossing (unfortunately facing away from camera) with a pedestrian push button. The lights appear to be painted either silver or white and you can just discern the word "GO" on the green light facing traffic. Maybe at first normal traffic lights were deemed ok to use as crossing lights.

[Chris584]

https://pin.it/3kiD9Bw

As mentioned the early SGE crossing, and the other link is for the Brighton crossing I mentioned. Not sure whether it'll open.