Wait/cross signal

[Chris584]

Here's the Brighton picture. If you enlarge the crossing light on the far side of the road you'll see a red light with something written on it. The crossing light in the middle of the road doesn't appear to be showing a light. Note the traffic lights all have primary visors.

[Chris584]

Got them wired to a sequencer now.

[traffic-light-man]

They look absolutely splendid!

On the subject of lenses, I suppose it's possible they had 'WAIT' written in black-on-red, though I suppose if they'd used standard red lenses it'd also be possible (if not likely) that some ended up with 'STOP' written on them, as would have been the standard red lens in those days.

I'm also aware from Chris' excellent research published on his website, that earlier (although this is in the early 1930s) installations were offered with regular RAG signals for pedestrians if needed, while the standard at this stage was for no signal at all for pedestrians. That stage seemed to pass rather quickly, and the 'DONT CROSS' and 'CROSS NOW' signals started appearing, albeit both in white at first.

With regards to your Brighton example, it also looks as though it's got the button-free demand equipment fitted, as developed by ATM.

This fantastic article describes the system in more depth, but essentially pedestrians triggered it by walking in to a beam of light, much like a high vehicle triggering an over-height vehicle detector.

What else is interesting is the description of 'special signals for the cycle track', and what look like a waist-height mounted pair of signal heads on the pole in the background. They look a little out of place, perhaps an early attempt at a Toucan using low level cycle signals?

[Chris584]

Some fascinating information there Simon. Interesting to see the info by the other Chris, in the photos from the 30s, you can see in one of them, the red stop light is reversed, ie the word "stop" is in red with the rest of the lens blacked out. I wonder if the green light was similar with only "GO" in green, and whilst I'd learnt here that some cross lights were green, I didn't know that at first in some cases they, both wait & cross now, were in white.
I'd love to see a dedicated museum to UK traffic lights. I'd heard that Siemens had a collection at one of their factory sites but never found out where.

[traffic-light-man]

I've stumbled across a picture which appears to show that experimental crossing from a different angle, along the cycle track.

It seems the 'special' signals for the cycle track are just regular RAGs (not that I expected anything different), and those low-level signals facing the crossing look a bit more apparent in this view. Still can't work out their purpose, though, given everything else is mounted at a regular height.

Interesting to see the info by the other Chris, in the photos from the 30s, you can see in one of them, the red stop light is reversed, ie the word "stop" is in red with the rest of the lens blacked out. I wonder if the green light was similar with only "GO" in green

Indeed, I'd noticed this too. I don't know if it's trickery of photographs or perhaps some kind of early editing, but it doesn't seem particularly sensible to have the lenses that way around! One of the earlier Forest City ads shows the pedestrian 'commands' as black-on-white, too, which looks novel.

I'd love to see a dedicated museum to UK traffic lights. I'd heard that Siemens had a collection at one of their factory sites but never found out where.

I would also like that to become a reality. I would imagine it might not gain so much traction on it's own, and perhaps have to be co-located with another transport relevant museum.

I recall someone getting in touch via my short-lived website who had quite a comprehensive collection of older signal heads, from what I remember he was planning on trying to get them installed at a transport museum in a functional layout. I'll have to try and dig out that conversation chain and make contact again!

[rhyds]

TIAW!

TIAW 'BOI!

[Chris584]

Simon,
Some years ago, probably best part of 20, I was in a brief communication with a chap in the west midlands (I think) who had a collection of lights. I tried to arrange a visit but he said they were buried at the back of his garage and would have to find time to get them out. Unfortunately I never heard from him again. Looking at the Morden crossing picture, I see that all visors are primary types, and there is a light angled towards traffic on the far side even though the road appears to be a dual carriageway.
The low mounted lights are a puzzle, although there isn't a high mounted one one that side of the crossing. I'm going to see if there is a local history site for the Morden to see if there's any further details.

[Chris584]

I stand corrected, I've just looked at the other picture you posted, and there is a high mounted crossing light, so the mystery continues. Maybe for little people?

[Gareth]

Are the low level signals, perhaps, for the cyclists wanting to cross the road from the path, while the full size ones are standard pedestrian signals?

[Nicks garage]

Here’s a picture of an original crossing advert I have, it’s says the crossing has been in operation for more than 15 years and I think they were designed in 1928 so it’s around 1945 ish

I also have a more recent one

[traffic-light-man]

Simon,
Some years ago, probably best part of 20, I was in a brief communication with a chap in the west midlands (I think) who had a collection of lights. I tried to arrange a visit but he said they were buried at the back of his garage and would have to find time to get them out.

I have trawled my emails, found the correspondence and thought I'd give a reply a try. As I suspected, it unfortunately bounced back - shame!

Regarding Forest City signals, this is the only close-up I've ever seen of an original model Forest City head. It was on an expired auction listing some time ago, as you see here paired with a much later GEC Elliott Autoflex controller.

I think the only other non-ATE or SGE style head I've seen was the Revo signal head that the transport museum (if I recall correctly) in Glasgow had on display some time ago, which I had badly photographed one time!

[Chris584]

Great pictures. I recall seeing a picture of a very early light which looked like a single unit with lights on opposite sides, a bit like some older toy models, standing in or outside what I believe is a museum possibly in the Leeds area, though my memory does play tricks on me these days. I'm going to try & find the image.

[traffic-light-man]

Was it in a very poor state of repair, by any chance? I think I remember seeing that image, never been able to find it since.

This article shows similar heads, also in Leeds:

I have quite a few images saved featuring these 'non-adjustable' (as the Americans call them) signal heads. Some were most definitely an ATM design, and just looks four tin lantern faces stuck together. I have also got a copy of a Revo catalogue that shows a similar design by Revo in the 'installed around the country' montage, but they seem to be selling something more like a tin lantern by that point.

I also thought that non-adjustable Crouse Hinds (a US company involved in signals from a very early stage) signals might have made an appearance in the UK given the similarities between old signals pictured in some parts of the UK (including the Leeds picture above) and one of Crouse Hinds' earlier designs. However, like with the Tokheim signals, I can't find any mention of CH operating in the UK that early on, nor can I find any mention of designs being licensed to a UK company.

[Chris584]

That signal I mentioned was standing in the open, but definitely at some sort of transport museum, which may or may not have had a narrow gauge railway there. I looked for the image but couldn't find it. It seemed in reasonable condition with two sets of light facing in opposite directions. The actual lights seemed smaller than the usual 8 & a bit inch lights that became more common.

[traffic-light-man]

Ah, no, I don't think I've seen that one.

It seems like the early signal market was quite diverse, and then it dropped off to ATE and SGE rather quickly.

I've just located these images on my computer that appear to show a non-adjustable multi-directional type head and a single-direction head of the same design style, but I've got no idea what the manufacturer is. Nothing looks familiar on them to compare them to another brand of the era.

The article also shows an interesting signal top right. Looking closely, it seems to have a flattened diamond logo at the bottom of the signal head and also on the box on the pole. I suppose its possible this was an early SGE modification of one of their railway signals in to a road signal, which was of course also the situation with the first electric signals installed at Piccadilly in 1925.

[Chris584]

The traffic light with the beacon on top looks like the Dinky toys one. The three way SGE reminds me of where I was born at Holborn in Central London. The junction of Gray's Inn Road and Clerkenwell Road had one of these on each corner. The opposing lights were for traffic, and the other one was for pedestrians, as in those days cars turning had to give way to people crossing. Fat chance of that now!

[Chris Bertram]

The traffic light with the beacon on top looks like the Dinky toys one. The three way SGE reminds me of where I was born at Holborn in Central London. The junction of Gray's Inn Road and Clerkenwell Road had one of these on each corner. The opposing lights were for traffic, and the other one was for pedestrians, as in those days cars turning had to give way to people crossing. Fat chance of that now!

I think that this is still officially the case in the absence of pedestrian signals. It's certainly the rule when turning into side roads at unsignalled junctions, and I do my best to observe this rule.

[Chris584]

[attachment=0]ssra019a.jpg[/attachment]
Not the best view, but this is a screen shot from the film Steptoe & Son Ride Again. This is Harrow Road, one of three places where the "matchstick men" crossing experiments took place. You can just make out the crossing light with a tin head attached. Harringay had SGEs, (see my avatar), and I think the other trial area (I've forgotten where) was also tin heads.

[Chris584]

Upon reflection, it's unlikely this is a "matchstick man" crossing, as the film was released in 1973.
It still looks odd and not like a red/green man crossing light.
The other experimental crossing location I forgot was Ealing.

[Chris584]

I've just watched the part of the film where the picture I posted was from, and can confirm that it is a matchstick man crossing light. There is also a glimpse of one of the "Controlled Area" signs too. I had no idea they lasted that long. The Harringay ones lasted longer than the 1 year experiment, but not into the 70s I don't believe.