Earliest Mellor Signals

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PhilC
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Re: Earliest Mellor Signals

Post by PhilC »

Chris584 wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 16:10 One thing I remember about the mellor signals in the early days was that when they changed, the lights seemed to fade out and in rather than go on & off like a conventional tungsten or halogen bulb. This was actually mentioned in the children's educational comic/magazine "Look and Learn" that we used to get each week. This would have been mid to late 60s and the article was talking of the new larger lights being developed for the future.
I have to say I always thought a junction full of mellors in London always looked overbearing because of their size. I never understood why they were so big & cumbersome. Purely my opinion, I know & respect that they have their fans.
I can remember the signals gradually fading as well. I always assumed it was to protect the circuitry from a sudden power surge but I don't know.
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Re: Earliest Mellor Signals

Post by Gareth »

traffic-light-man wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:47I would think they went with the Rewley Road SGEs in Oxford, around 1999. The last Tin heads with STOP lenses were likely the ones at A562 Menlove Avenue/B5171 Woolton Road junction in Liverpool, removed around 1998. I would imagine these must have been some of the last GEC Mellor installations to make an appearance in the city, too, given GEC sold its traffic controls business to PEEK in the late 90s.
I didn't know the Woolton Rd ones lasted that long. I thought the ones at Goodison Park may have been the last. I'm not sure when they were replaced but they were still there in Summer '98.
traffic-light-man wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:47From what I can tell, backing boards certainly gained traction following the introduction of the border and all-black signal heads (was this in TSRGD 1964? I've got some scans of TSRGD 1957, that mandates the full-stripes scheme).
I believe that all installations had to have all-black signal heads by 1966. I have a feeling it wasn't 'grandfathered', so to speak, and all existing installations had to be repainted. It probably came in with the new signs in 1965 though.

Intrestingly, although traffic signals were not part of their remit, the Warboys Report did put in a couple of paragraphs about them. They said that despite the change of the road sign poles to grey, the signal poles should remain stripey, as signals should standout against other standards. They also said the 'CROSS NOW' aspect should remain white to distinguish it from the green light for motorists. Surprisingly, they were somewhat ambivalent about changing the pedestrian signals over to pictograms, merely saying it should be considered at some point in the future. Their other recommendation was to introduce the "Greek Cross" signal found in France to show that oncoming traffic has a red light. Weirdly, they never mentioned the 'STOP' lettering on the red lenses. Doesn't seem the DfT cared much for their views on traffic signals anyway because the Greek Cross wasn't introduced, the white aspect for pedestrians became green with the changeover to pictograms and the striped poles only lasted a few more years. Indeed, it seems that it was decided very early in the process that Mellor signals would be grey, as in the 1966 demo, whilst these signals still had 'STOP' command lenses.
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traffic-light-man
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Re: Earliest Mellor Signals

Post by traffic-light-man »

Gareth wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 17:38I believe that all installations had to have all-black signal heads by 1966. I have a feeling it wasn't 'grandfathered', so to speak, and all existing installations had to be repainted. It probably came in with the new signs in 1965 though.


That would make sense if it came in with TSRGD 1964 then, perhaps with a sign saving of 2 years. Has anyone got a copy of the '64 regs to hand (I know there's a few folk with older regs in their collections)? :P I'm not sure how routine re-painting type maintenance was, but a quick slop coat of black paint would have done the trick.

I visited a Pelican on Grinfield Street in Liverpool yesterday. I'd never paid it much attention, but this thread made me begin thinking of the older sites that still remain. One of the poles still has a perpendicular push button (i.e. not parallel to the kerb line), low mounting height and best of all, two original GEC Elliott signal heads. I think the controller is a more recent Plessey. Most of the others with these characteristics that I can think of have been replaced over the last ten years during the Council's upgrade spree.

This must be of a fair vintage by now, along with the 4 pole cross roads at Overton St just up the road, which are also GEC Elliott heads.
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Re: Earliest Mellor Signals

Post by Gareth »

Yeah, that's pretty old school.

Thinking of pelicans: whilst new ones can no longer be installed, existing ones will be allowed to remain until they're considered life-expired. This may seem reasonable but as they get rarer, both pedestrians and motorists will become increasingly unfamiliar with them and the rules of the flashing amber/green man phase. I don't think we should get into a situation where there's small pockets of them dotted about the country, with many people hardly ever coming across them; especially new drivers who may have not even come across any during their lessons. You would think, at some point that they will have to set a deadline for nationwide removal.
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Re: Earliest Mellor Signals

Post by traffic-light-man »

I've got another couple of Pelicans to stop off at locally that I think are probably of significant vintage.

I think a lot of Authorities have upgraded Pelican controllers (or indeed entire sites) recently enough that they will be around for quite some time yet. Authority areas such as Sefton MBC (who were still installing LED Pelicans until the regs changed) I would imagine will have the equipment on-street for quite some time yet unless a savings date is applied.

Liverpool CC is doing fairly well at obliterating them by the dozen during in Mayor Anderson's Better Roads initiative. There are only a few main corridors in to the city still left with Pelicans now, A561 Aigburth Road and A5049 Rocky Lane/West Derby Road being the two prominent ones.
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Re: Earliest Mellor Signals

Post by L.J.D »

There is a site outside Barking Station which is a Mellor set and it used to be a pelican crossing but its been changed to a toucan crossing. Evidence of this it's the diagrams on the PBUs as they still have the diagrams for a pelican crossing on.

So I guess councils can easy switch over without major works. Surely they can just change the programming.

I think the one in Barking just has normal sequence then a blackout phase. They must of just forgotten to change the button diagrams. Linky looks like quite an oldish looking site too.
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Re: Earliest Mellor Signals

Post by Rambo »

I don't have much knowledge on traffic signals but i photographed these (mellor?) at Sandhills, Liverpool looking rather ropey.
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Re: Earliest Mellor Signals

Post by ReissOmari »

These Mellors in Birmingham look a bit tired too.

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.5014684 ... 312!8i6656
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Re: Earliest Mellor Signals

Post by L.J.D »

See I know it was said earlier on that Mellors look odd without the borders on them but I think they probably age better without them because the borders become scruffy and shabby over time and make the heads look well old. It's the same with the old Peek Elite borders too. I've seen around Skegness they've replaced some borders on Elites with the newer smaller ones and it's tidied up alot of sites that were looking really shabby.
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Re: Earliest Mellor Signals

Post by Gareth »

Rambo wrote: Sun Jun 28, 2020 19:54 I don't have much knowledge on traffic signals but i photographed these (mellor?) at Sandhills, Liverpool looking rather ropey.
Yes, they are Mellors. 1983 vintage, I believe. One of the junctions around there had SGE signals back in the day; which was quite unusual for Liverpool, who were Plessey loyalists (probably due to the factory on Edge Lane which was originally Marconi).
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Re: Earliest Mellor Signals

Post by traffic-light-man »

ReissOmari wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 13:00 These Mellors in Birmingham look a bit tired too.

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.5014684 ... 312!8i6656
Birmingham has some very elderly Mellor installations still holding on. I quite like the fact they've got so many left compared to a lot of places.
Gareth wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 16:12One of the junctions around there had SGE signals back in the day
Would these be those? Boundary Street/Stanley Road.
Boundary street - 1972.jpg
I also happened across this interesting photo showing a black and white Tin, but with what appears to be a later yellow-bordered backing board fitted!
Commercial Road by the Sandhills bridge pub on 17.10.66.jpg
Both photos published by the fantastic Liverpool Picturebook.
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Re: Earliest Mellor Signals

Post by Gareth »

Yes, those were the ones I was thinking of. Other notable ones were the Breck Rd/Priory Rd junction and Queens Dr/Rocky Ln.

Yeah, that signal looks weird. Wonder if the board was retrofitted.
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Re: Earliest Mellor Signals

Post by traffic-light-man »

Gareth wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 21:20 Yes, those were the ones I was thinking of. Other notable ones were the Breck Rd/Priory Rd junction and Queens Dr/Rocky Ln.

Yeah, that signal looks weird. Wonder if the board was retrofitted.
I managed to dig up this picture of the Priory Road ones, complete with yellow border! No joy from Rocky Lane/Queens Drive, although come to think of it, some of those Mellors must be getting on a bit by now!

I'd say it's likely the backing board was retrofitted, though you'd think they'd have splashed some black paint on the lantern at the same time as fitting the backing boards.
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Re: Earliest Mellor Signals

Post by Truvelo »

Lots of interest in that last photo besides the yellow bordered lights. The blue car looks like a Cortina estate? The streetlight looks like a GEC Brick? I dread to think what the green car is - Ford Anglia?
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Re: Earliest Mellor Signals

Post by Chris584 »

The green car is a Rootes Group vehicle. It's either a Hillman, Singer or possibly a Sunbeam, even a Humber Sceptre, but most likely a Hillman. The blue estate looks like a mk3 Cortina, but could be a Vauxhall, lots of similar designs then, and most of them rust buckets before they were 10 years old.
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Re: Earliest Mellor Signals

Post by Gareth »

traffic-light-man wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 23:37
Gareth wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 21:20 Yes, those were the ones I was thinking of. Other notable ones were the Breck Rd/Priory Rd junction and Queens Dr/Rocky Ln.

Yeah, that signal looks weird. Wonder if the board was retrofitted.
I managed to dig up this picture of the Priory Road ones, complete with yellow border! No joy from Rocky Lane/Queens Drive, although come to think of it, some of those Mellors must be getting on a bit by now!

I'd say it's likely the backing board was retrofitted, though you'd think they'd have splashed some black paint on the lantern at the same time as fitting the backing boards.
That's a good photo. Never seen it before. The Queens Dr/Rocky Ln ones I can only find one photo of Queens Dr just before the Fiveways with the camera facing towards that intersection. Dated 1976, I think. You can only just make out the stripes on the poles in the distance, so it's barely worth linking to. I recall both these and the Priory Rd ones still having their SGE poles, although painted grey with mellor heads mounted on them. They had their posts changed over to the modern type in the late 90s. The existing mellor heads were reused.
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Re: Earliest Mellor Signals

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There used to be photos of the A562 signals taken sometime in 1998 on the wiki here but they appear to have been lost.
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Re: Earliest Mellor Signals

Post by Gareth »

They were taken by A303Paul. He did the Oxford SGEs on the same day (that's dedication for you).

He appears to no longer be active here and has took his photos with him.
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Re: Earliest Mellor Signals

Post by L.J.D »

I've been thinking about this thread and I was thinking how fun it would be to stir it up a little. Instead of the oldest or earliest Mellors how about the newest Mellors in the UK or at least some more recent installations? Top of my head I can think of these which are newish as I'd imagine they were installed when the houses were built and the houses don't look that old also the lights are still shining nice and brightly unlike most elderly Mellors these days.
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Re: Earliest Mellor Signals

Post by ReissOmari »

Good idea! There are a few in Birmingham that look like recent installations, some still look quite fresh.

Pedestrian set in Ladywood

Another pedestrian set in Ladywood (note the LED mellor too)

This junction in Setchford

This junction in Handsworth

This junction in Stechford, these have had new boards fitted to them too.
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