TSRGD 1957

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pierre.hartmann88
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TSRGD 1957

Post by pierre.hartmann88 »

Ladies and gentlemen,

For some years now I've been looking for the TSRGD from 1957.
So far I've had no luck.
In 2013 an edition was sold on eBay, but I haven't found one since.

I was wondering if there's someone who could possibly help me? I would be happy with scans or photographed pages of the signs.

I've already got the 1944 report, but I'd like to see the 'new' signs from 1957, as I'm a big fan of the Pre-Worboys signs.

Thank you
yen_powell
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Re: TSRGD 1957

Post by yen_powell »

Can't work out if this is saying you can read it or they don't have it?
https://openlibrary.org/works/OL2872375 ... tions_1957
pierre.hartmann88
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Re: TSRGD 1957

Post by pierre.hartmann88 »

They don't have the book. :(
I even registered there and created an account. Unfortunately the book isn't available and the sales link doesn't work either, the seller doesn't have the book at all.
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Bryn666
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Re: TSRGD 1957

Post by Bryn666 »

Hi Pierre - I've had the same problems finding a copy of it.

I'd suspect the best bet is some local council that hasn't fully cleared out old books but this is a very fleeting chance. I only have copies of the 1964, 75, 81, 94, and 2002 regs because they were going to be binned otherwise by an ex-employer.
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traffic-light-man
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Re: TSRGD 1957

Post by traffic-light-man »

Hey Pierre, welcome to SABRE!

I've got some scans of the '57 regs, but unfortunately only the written sections that are traffic signal relevant. I've no idea where I got them from, and they're a fairly low quality JPEG so just about legible if you don't try and enlarge them.

I can only imagine they were probably posted by someone in the SABRE community at some stage, but I've had them sitting there in a (virtual) folder for a long time now.
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pierre.hartmann88
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Re: TSRGD 1957

Post by pierre.hartmann88 »

Thanks for the offer Simon but I need the traffic signs section only cause they usually show the measurements of the signs, symbols and letters.

We're trying to recreate some of them such as the cattle sign and one way traffic sign and others. Unfortunately they aren't in the report of 1944 for they were introduced later.

I've even contacted the HMSO but unfortunately they couldn't help either. They don't have a copy.
yen_powell
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Re: TSRGD 1957

Post by yen_powell »

Bryn666 wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:25 Hi Pierre - I've had the same problems finding a copy of it.

I'd suspect the best bet is some local council that hasn't fully cleared out old books but this is a very fleeting chance. I only have copies of the 1964, 75, 81, 94, and 2002 regs because they were going to be binned otherwise by an ex-employer.
We moved offices about 6 months ago and I found all our copies of the 2002 regs in the bin. I got a few back out and put them on the shelf. At least I can have a flick through them in number order to check out a diagram number before looking for it in the 2016 regs which are poxy for day to day use.
yen_powell
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Re: TSRGD 1957

Post by yen_powell »

pierre.hartmann88 wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 18:10 Thanks for the offer Simon but I need the traffic signs section only cause they usually show the measurements of the signs, symbols and letters.

We're trying to recreate some of them such as the cattle sign and one way traffic sign and others. Unfortunately they aren't in the report of 1944 for they were introduced later.

I've even contacted the HMSO but unfortunately they couldn't help either. They don't have a copy.
I'm sure that there is a place that holds every published book for the UK so I had a quick google and this came up.

"the 5 legal deposit libraries in the UK are:
The British Library;
National Library of Scotland, Edinburgh;
Bodleian Library, Oxford;
University Library, Cambridge; and
National Library of Wales, Aberystwyth."

Then I googled legal deposit library and this came up

"Legal deposit. Legal deposit is a legal requirement that a person or group submit copies of their publications to a repository, usually a library. The number of copies required varies from country to country. Typically, the national library is one of the repositories of these copies, usually the main one."
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traffic-light-man
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Re: TSRGD 1957

Post by traffic-light-man »

Indeed, the National Archives appear to have a 'Regulations and general directions' under MT112/Traffic Signs, issued in 4 parts throughout the 1950s. Unfortunately they're closed at the moment, of course.

I'm not sure at what point legal documents are digitised and uploaded to legislation.gov.uk, but they don't have anything pre-1975 when it comes to the TSRGD proper.
Simon
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Truvelo
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Re: TSRGD 1957

Post by Truvelo »

I had an email from the National Archives today to say they are reopening from 21st July. All visits and document requests will have to be pre-ordered in advance but that's something I was expecting and will probably apply at all archives when they reopen.
How would you like your grade separations, Sir?
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Conekicker
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Re: TSRGD 1957

Post by Conekicker »

If anyone can source a copy, could they scan it and create a PDF please? I'm sure there would be more than a few members interested in getting hold of a copy.
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Vierwielen
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Re: TSRGD 1957

Post by Vierwielen »

Truvelo wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 20:26 I had an email from the National Archives today to say they are reopening from 21st July. All visits and document requests will have to be pre-ordered in advance but that's something I was expecting and will probably apply at all archives when they reopen.
Pre-ordering for libraries is nothing new. A few years ago I wanted a list of everybody in my old class. I knew that our school magazine usually had such a list and also that the school magazine had been deposited at the British Library. I could not just toddle up to Euston Road because the physical publication is kept at a location in Boston Spa (could it be that rents in Boston Spa are less than Central London?) and that it would be brought down for me on the daily run between the North and London.
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Conekicker
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Re: TSRGD 1957

Post by Conekicker »

Just bumping this. Has anyone had any success getting hold of a copy please?
Patience is not a virtue - it's a concept invented by the dozy beggars who are unable to think quickly enough.
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Truvelo
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Re: TSRGD 1957

Post by Truvelo »

Conekicker wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 20:08 Just bumping this. Has anyone had any success getting hold of a copy please?
I had a visit to National Archives booked for the start of January but it was cancelled when London went into Tier 4. Some items regarding TSRGD 1957 were among the documents I had ordered. I still don't know when it will reopen. After the previous lockdown priority was given to those who's visit was cancelled so I'm hoping the same will apply again this time.
How would you like your grade separations, Sir?
Big and complex.
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Conekicker
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Re: TSRGD 1957

Post by Conekicker »

Truvelo wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 21:37
Conekicker wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 20:08 Just bumping this. Has anyone had any success getting hold of a copy please?
I had a visit to National Archives booked for the start of January but it was cancelled when London went into Tier 4. Some items regarding TSRGD 1957 were among the documents I had ordered. I still don't know when it will reopen. After the previous lockdown priority was given to those who's visit was cancelled so I'm hoping the same will apply again this time.
Fingers crossed then :)
Patience is not a virtue - it's a concept invented by the dozy beggars who are unable to think quickly enough.
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Bryn666
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Re: TSRGD 1957

Post by Bryn666 »

Conekicker wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 23:10
Truvelo wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 21:37
Conekicker wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 20:08 Just bumping this. Has anyone had any success getting hold of a copy please?
I had a visit to National Archives booked for the start of January but it was cancelled when London went into Tier 4. Some items regarding TSRGD 1957 were among the documents I had ordered. I still don't know when it will reopen. After the previous lockdown priority was given to those who's visit was cancelled so I'm hoping the same will apply again this time.
Fingers crossed then :)
As it's out of Crown Copyright it should be possible to get a full copy of it from the archive too if it exists.
Bryn
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Conekicker
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Re: TSRGD 1957

Post by Conekicker »

What came before the 1972(?) edition of Chapter 8 of the Traffic Signs Manual? Well a few documents, the attached being one that went with the '57 regs. Someone kindly sent me a set of photos of it and as it's quite a simple document, I thought I'd have a go at recreating it.

MT 736
MT736 reproduction.pdf
(479.67 KiB) Downloaded 83 times
Last edited by Conekicker on Sun Mar 21, 2021 00:26, edited 2 times in total.
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Truvelo
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Re: TSRGD 1957

Post by Truvelo »

Anything at Kew can be photographed for free even if it's under fifty years old. I'm hoping the high vaccination rate means archives will start reopening sooner rather than later. I know there's a few members on here keen to see older versions of TSRGD.
How would you like your grade separations, Sir?
Big and complex.
pierre.hartmann88
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Re: TSRGD 1957

Post by pierre.hartmann88 »

Im still curious to see the 1957 edition.
I was able to get the report from 1944/46, the 1963 Worboys report and an edition from 1975. They were all for sale on eBay, withdrawn from the Guildhall Library in London. Unfortunately they didn't have the 1957 TSRGD.

There is one copy available but it's in California and unfortunately I'm not a student in Berkley 🤣.
I've been in contact for some months now and asked for a pdf copy for which I would even pay but due to that Covid19 stuff they don't have enough staff and storages are closed and so on.
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Conekicker
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Re: TSRGD 1957

Post by Conekicker »

One of the other pre-Chapter 8 documents is MT 801. Unfortunately it's too big to upload as a single PDF, so I've had to split it into 5 files. First 3 attached. You can recombine them with Adolix Split and Merge PDF, a free download.
MT 801 part 2.pdf
(357.73 KiB) Downloaded 86 times
MT 801 part 3.pdf
(338.97 KiB) Downloaded 66 times
MT 801 part 1.pdf
(324.16 KiB) Downloaded 69 times
Last edited by Conekicker on Sun Mar 21, 2021 00:26, edited 1 time in total.
Patience is not a virtue - it's a concept invented by the dozy beggars who are unable to think quickly enough.
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