A question about speed limits

[Chris Bertram]

I just read this "UK speed limits are shown in mph.

The only exception I've seen is the Tyne & Wear Metro where everything is metric so they're in kph.

"km/h" is the usual symbol for the unit of velocity. And although London Underground speed limits are in mph, the actual track measurements are metric, to a 10mm precision, measured from a datum point at Ongar station, which is of course no longer part of the network. AIUI the DLR is regulated in km/h, but there are no drivers on the trains which makes it somewhat academic.

[Nathan_A_RF]

Railway speed limits are a different matter. The main railway network is signed in miles per hour, although there are some exceptions like the Tyne & Wear Metro. Another is the HS1 (CTRL) which is signed in km/h* as it is a modern railway with European loading gauge. More info on speed limit signs can be found here, a handy website for railway signs. Why don't we adopt the white on black for metric speed limit signs on the road

*technically not signed as such, as all the signalling and signage on HS1 is done via the TVM430 cab signalling system, but you can still see metric speed limit signs at Ashford, Ebbsfleet and St Pancras.

[UKboy]

Railway speed limits are a different matter. The main railway network is signed in miles per hour, although there are some exceptions like the Tyne & Wear Metro. Another is the HS1 (CTRL) which is signed in km/h* as it is a modern railway with European loading gauge. More info on speed limit signs can be found here, a handy website for railway signs. Why don't we adopt the white on black for metric speed limit signs on the road

*technically not signed as such, as all the signalling and signage on HS1 is done via the TVM430 cab signalling system, but you can still see metric speed limit signs at Ashford, Ebbsfleet and St Pancras.

Yes, there are still metric speed limit signs there due to other services using that same station aswell.

[Piatkow]

I just read this "UK speed limits are shown in mph.

The only exception I've seen is the Tyne & Wear Metro where everything is metric so they're in kph.

"km/h" is the usual symbol for the unit of velocity. And although London Underground speed limits are in mph, the actual track measurements are metric, to a 10mm precision, measured from a datum point at Ongar station, which is of course no longer part of the network. AIUI the DLR is regulated in km/h, but there are no drivers on the trains which makes it somewhat academic.

The DLR speed limit signs are for works trains when the power is off.

[Vierwielen]

Railway speed limits are a different matter. The main railway network is signed in miles per hour, although there are some exceptions like the Tyne & Wear Metro. Another is the HS1 (CTRL) which is signed in km/h* as it is a modern railway with European loading gauge. More info on speed limit signs can be found here, a handy website for railway signs. Why don't we adopt the white on black for metric speed limit signs on the road

*technically not signed as such, as all the signalling and signage on HS1 is done via the TVM430 cab signalling system, but you can still see metric speed limit signs at Ashford, Ebbsfleet and St Pancras.

Yes, there are still metric speed limit signs there due to other services using that same station aswell.

The branch line from Wimbledon to Putney has a speed limit sign that read "30" and beneath it another one that reads "45 LUR" (spread across two lines). Thius sign is clearly visible from main line trains leaving Wimbledon for London Waterloo. I have always assumed that "45 LUR" means 45 km/h (London Uncerground Railway), though I am open to correction.

[Vierwielen]

Railway speed limits are a different matter. The main railway network is signed in miles per hour, although there are some exceptions like the Tyne & Wear Metro. Another is the HS1 (CTRL) which is signed in km/h* as it is a modern railway with European loading gauge. More info on speed limit signs can be found here, a handy website for railway signs. Why don't we adopt the white on black for metric speed limit signs on the road

*technically not signed as such, as all the signalling and signage on HS1 is done via the TVM430 cab signalling system, but you can still see metric speed limit signs at Ashford, Ebbsfleet and St Pancras.

I understand that speed limits on all tramslines in the UK (apart from heritage lines and lines that share track with heavy rail) are in km/h. In addition, I believe that speed limits on the Cambrian railway are also in km/h. The switch to km/h was necessary when the signalling on that line was replaced with signalling based on ETCS. Although ETCS was over-kill for that line, it was used as a test-bed for that system. With the roll-out of ETCS (also known as the "digital railway") the question of a switch-over to km/h is not if it should be done, but rather how best to do it.

For those who are uninitiated about ETCS (European Train Control System), it is part of the signalling component of ERTMS (European Rail Traffic Management System). Although ERTMS was an idea that was conceived by the EU, it has is being exported to a number of countries outside Europe and 49% of ERTMS controlled track in now in countries outside Europe (largely in China with other big users including Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Australia).

[AndyB]

I just read this "UK speed limits are shown in mph. With a few exceptions, they are in multiples of 10, ranging from 20 miles per hour (32 km/h) to 70 miles per hour (113 km/h)."
Does this mean there are multiple of 5 speed limits or ones below 20 or above 70 on public roads?

(Might be false information on Wikipedia)

Back to this point, the statement as far as it goes is accurate, because enforceable speed limits are in multiples of 10 from 20-70, but the owner of a private road can erect signs showing whatever limit they please as long as they don't expect the police to do anything about them.

[Chris Bertram]

I understand that speed limits on all tramlines in the UK (apart from heritage lines and lines that share track with heavy rail) are in km/h.

LU is not a tramline, and its speed limits are in mph*. It shares track with some main line rail routes, such as with the Overground to Harrow and Wealdstone, and also from Gunnersbury to Richmond, plus the Metropolitan shares track on the way out to Amersham, with the main line service continuing beyond to Aylesbury. I can only think of one other example of shared lines, this being the T&W Metro between Heworth and Sunderland, here there is dual signage with NR signing in mp/h and the Metro having hexagonal signs in km/h. South of Sunderland, the Metro has its own tracks to Pennywell, while north of Heworth the tracks diverge on the way to Gateshead.

* Croydon Tramlink and the DLR are signed in km/h.

[SteelCamel]

Not all trams use km/h - Sheffield Supertram is in mph (but using the diamond-shaped sign). I gather Metrolink is as well.
Sheffield also has a shared line - branching off at Tinsley onto the line through Rotherham Central station and terminating at Parkgate. Only the new tram-trains can use this line, the original trams are banned from this section.

[Britain]

I saw 10mph speed limit signs during roadsworks in St Helens. I can't believe how lucky I am that GSV picked it up.

[TS]

This 25mph speed limit sign (and one facing the other way on the lamppost diagonally behind me) can be found on Fowler Avenue in Farnborough, outside the Gloster Hungry Horse pub/restaurant.

[WHBM]

This 25mph speed limit sign (and one facing the other way on the lamppost diagonally behind me) can be found on Fowler Avenue in Farnborough, outside the Gloster Hungry Horse pub/restaurant.

That's actually a private road. It belongs to British Aerospace.

[Alderpoint]

This 25mph speed limit sign (and one facing the other way on the lamppost diagonally behind me) can be found on Fowler Avenue in Farnborough, outside the Gloster Hungry Horse pub/restaurant.

That's actually a private road. It belongs to British Aerospace.

Who would be able to enforce such a restriction?

[WHBM]

Who would be able to enforce such a restriction?

In law, nobody. It is essentially advisory.

In practice, as it's a private road, the owner, BAe in this case, could ban the car owner from driving on their premises. These are quite open and easy of access, but the premises owner may well be responsible for car parking permits, which could be withdrawn for whoever they like. I believe Heathrow airport has actually done this for various driving infringements on the airport roads by those with parking permits.

One shopping centre I was aware of, an employee at one of the units was always parking in the first disabled slot by the door. Security issued notices on the car to no effect, then they found who it was and contacted the shop owner, who didn't seem to fussed about it either. Eventually they gave the shop owner notice to quit on their rental unit if it happened again, which focused minds. There are ways ...

[JohnnyMo]

Railway speed limits are a different matter. The main railway network is signed in miles per hour, although there are some exceptions like the Tyne & Wear Metro. Another is the HS1 (CTRL) which is signed in km/h* as it is a modern railway with European loading gauge. More info on speed limit signs can be found here, a handy website for railway signs. Why don't we adopt the white on black for metric speed limit signs on the road

*technically not signed as such, as all the signalling and signage on HS1 is done via the TVM430 cab signalling system, but you can still see metric speed limit signs at Ashford, Ebbsfleet and St Pancras.

Yes, there are still metric speed limit signs there due to other services using that same station aswell.

The branch line from Wimbledon to Putney has a speed limit sign that read "30" and beneath it another one that reads "45 LUR" (spread across two lines). Thius sign is clearly visible from main line trains leaving Wimbledon for London Waterloo. I have always assumed that "45 LUR" means 45 km/h (London Uncerground Railway), though I am open to correction.

Unless the colours of the speed sign are reversed white on black rather than black on white it means MPH. Trains tracks often have multiple speed limits sometimes applies to any regular passenger service or sometimes to a particular class (HST/MU/EMU/373) or operator.

[jnty]

Yes, there are still metric speed limit signs there due to other services using that same station aswell.

The branch line from Wimbledon to Putney has a speed limit sign that read "30" and beneath it another one that reads "45 LUR" (spread across two lines). Thius sign is clearly visible from main line trains leaving Wimbledon for London Waterloo. I have always assumed that "45 LUR" means 45 km/h (London Uncerground Railway), though I am open to correction.

Unless the colours of the speed sign are reversed white on black rather than black on white it means MPH. Trains tracks often have multiple speed limits sometimes applies to any regular passenger service or sometimes to a particular class (HST/MU/EMU/373) or operator.

https://www.railsigns.uk/sect13page4.html

Example here (except it's LUL rather than LUR) and as you say sounds like they're both in MPH. Metric signs are also shown at the bottom - interestingly marked as obsolescent.

[JohnnyMo]

The branch line from Wimbledon to Putney has a speed limit sign that read "30" and beneath it another one that reads "45 LUR" (spread across two lines). Thius sign is clearly visible from main line trains leaving Wimbledon for London Waterloo. I have always assumed that "45 LUR" means 45 km/h (London Uncerground Railway), though I am open to correction.

Unless the colours of the speed sign are reversed white on black rather than black on white it means MPH. Trains tracks often have multiple speed limits sometimes applies to any regular passenger service or sometimes to a particular class (HST/MU/EMU/373) or operator.

https://www.railsigns.uk/sect13page4.html

Example here (except it's LUL rather than LUR) and as you say sounds like they're both in MPH. Metric signs are also shown at the bottom - interestingly marked as obsolescent.

See bottom of page 6 for the current metric signs, the obsolete ones specify KPH

[jnty]

Unless the colours of the speed sign are reversed white on black rather than black on white it means MPH. Trains tracks often have multiple speed limits sometimes applies to any regular passenger service or sometimes to a particular class (HST/MU/EMU/373) or operator.

https://www.railsigns.uk/sect13page4.html

Example here (except it's LUL rather than LUR) and as you say sounds like they're both in MPH. Metric signs are also shown at the bottom - interestingly marked as obsolescent.

See bottom of page 6 for the current metric signs, the obsolete ones specify KPH

Ah ha, thanks!