Are these signals legal?

[Britain]

I remember when this junction was installed around 2007 (from memory) it was possible to turn right onto Cromwell Ave West towards IKEA. I assume there may have been issues with traffic queuing back onto the Winwick Road roundabout, or rat-running through the industrial estate so it was changed to left turn only for vehicles.

Original layout with disused pole for right turn aspect later reused for the cycle aspect.

How would traffic turning right hear cause queues back up onto the roundabout? Where would people rat-run too/from through the industrial estate? Do you know what the second button I mentioned might be for?

[Dougman]

Moving slightly off-topic, that reminds me that our sign for an opening bridge - *any* opening bridge - on our road network shows a lifting bridge. Selby bridge (and Whitby harbour bridge, Cumberland bridge in Bristol and several others) is a swing bridge. Now I guess that it's not critical that the bridge is shown to the nth degree of accuracy - let's not forget that we still have steam trains as the symbol for open level crossings - but I wonder if a distinct design for this kind of bridge was considered.

I've often thought this when passing over the swing bridges over the Manchester ship canal. https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3722707 ... 312!8i6656 Obviously a universal sign for crossing a moveable bridge over water but not particularly accurate in some instances.

I think the more pressing signage issue here is the wig wag sign underneath and the lack of wig wags up ahead.

[traffic-light-man]

How would traffic turning right hear cause queues back up onto the roundabout? Where would people rat-run too/from through the industrial estate? Do you know what the second button I mentioned might be for?

Queues on to the roundabout could be caused by stopping westbound traffic regularly to allow traffic out of the industrial estate turning right. I imagine the use this gets by cyclists is quite minimal and the green time for them can be pretty short, so the likelihood of queues forming as a result are quite slim. A westbound turn for motor traffic can be completed using the roundabout.

I would suggest the second PBU on the island is for pedestrians who might become 'stranded' at the island, however given the lack of nearside indicator, pedestrians shouldn't know to stop at the island and will therefore complete their crossing anyway. The lack of indicator also renders it useless should a pedestrian stop and use the button.

[Bryn666]

Moving slightly off-topic, that reminds me that our sign for an opening bridge - *any* opening bridge - on our road network shows a lifting bridge. Selby bridge (and Whitby harbour bridge, Cumberland bridge in Bristol and several others) is a swing bridge. Now I guess that it's not critical that the bridge is shown to the nth degree of accuracy - let's not forget that we still have steam trains as the symbol for open level crossings - but I wonder if a distinct design for this kind of bridge was considered.

I've often thought this when passing over the swing bridges over the Manchester ship canal. https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3722707 ... 312!8i6656 Obviously a universal sign for crossing a moveable bridge over water but not particularly accurate in some instances.

I think the more pressing signage issue here is the wig wag sign underneath and the lack of wig wags up ahead.

Surely the two aspect tin signal qualifies, even if it is only two aspects on one is green... welcome to Warrington.

[Chris Bertram]

I've often thought this when passing over the swing bridges over the Manchester ship canal. https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3722707 ... 312!8i6656 Obviously a universal sign for crossing a moveable bridge over water but not particularly accurate in some instances.

I think the more pressing signage issue here is the wig wag sign underneath and the lack of wig wags up ahead.

Surely the two aspect tin signal qualifies, even if it is only two aspects on one is green... welcome to Warrington.

There are wig-wags at the other end of the bridge, but I'd assume the junction signals are interlocked with the bridge when it swings at this end.

Bryn, I'm struggling to see the two-aspect tin signal that you mention, where should I be looking?

[Rambo]

I think the more pressing signage issue here is the wig wag sign underneath and the lack of wig wags up ahead.

Surely the two aspect tin signal qualifies, even if it is only two aspects on one is green... welcome to Warrington.

There are wig-wags at the other end of the bridge, but I'd assume the junction signals are interlocked with the bridge when it swings at this end.

Bryn, I'm struggling to see the two-aspect tin signal that you mention, where should I be looking?

correct they are interlocked. i think this junction never used to be signalised so the wig wags were removed as it would be very cluttered.
Im assuming Bryn is on about the two aspect light on top of the bridge? That is only lit when swung to warn the shipping.

[traffic-light-man]

correct they are interlocked.

Do you know if the Toucan on the northern bank is interlocked too? I would assume it would be, but it's strange that there are wig wags on that side when there aren't any on the other side.

[SteelCamel]

Do you know what the second button I mentioned might be for?

Assuming you mean this one, It looks to me to be another pedestrian button - presumably for pedestrians that have crossed the cycle lane when there were no cycles but need to request to cross the other road lane. It's a bit odd that it's a Pelican button in an otherwise Puffin crossing, though, as this doesn't give the pedestrians waiting here any red/green man signals - though in practice they can see the ones on the other side.

[Rambo]

correct they are interlocked.

Do you know if the Toucan on the northern bank is interlocked too? I would assume it would be, but it's strange that there are wig wags on that side when there aren't any on the other side.

I'm not sure TBH. I've been stuck by a bridge swing on the southern side a few times but not on the northern side.
The same set up here https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3779747 ... 312!8i6656 with wig wags on the north side.

[traffic-light-man]

Do you know what the second button I mentioned might be for?

Assuming you mean this one, It looks to me to be another pedestrian button - presumably for pedestrians that have crossed the cycle lane when there were no cycles but need to request to cross the other road lane. It's a bit odd that it's a Pelican button in an otherwise Puffin crossing, though, as this doesn't give the pedestrians waiting here any red/green man signals - though in practice they can see the ones on the other side.

As I mentioned earlier, that's my assumption too. I would imagine it's been a result of 'we're building an island, it needs a PBU' and a botch has ensued, as prior to the cycle signals being installed, it didn't have an island.

Though being Warrington, it's not the strangest of installations. Not when there's these, these and these knocking about.

Do you know if the Toucan on the northern bank is interlocked too? I would assume it would be, but it's strange that there are wig wags on that side when there aren't any on the other side.

I'm not sure TBH. I've been stuck by a bridge swing on the southern side a few times but not on the northern side.
The same set up here https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3779747 ... 312!8i6656 with wig wags on the north side.

No, I don't think I've been stopped at that one in either direction. The wig wags at Latchford serve a purpose now, but this confirmation signal (these show red to the control room when the signals are in all-red) that has since been removed and these detector loops suggest there were once interlocked signals on the northern bank here too, though I can't remember them.

[Rambo]

Do you know what the second button I mentioned might be for?

Assuming you mean this one, It looks to me to be another pedestrian button - presumably for pedestrians that have crossed the cycle lane when there were no cycles but need to request to cross the other road lane. It's a bit odd that it's a Pelican button in an otherwise Puffin crossing, though, as this doesn't give the pedestrians waiting here any red/green man signals - though in practice they can see the ones on the other side.

As I mentioned earlier, that's my assumption too. I would imagine it's been a result of 'we're building an island, it needs a PBU' and a botch has ensued, as prior to the cycle signals being installed, it didn't have an island.

Though being Warrington, it's not the strangest of installations. Not when there's these, these and these knocking about.

Do you know if the Toucan on the northern bank is interlocked too? I would assume it would be, but it's strange that there are wig wags on that side when there aren't any on the other side.

I'm not sure TBH. I've been stuck by a bridge swing on the southern side a few times but not on the northern side.
The same set up here https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3779747 ... 312!8i6656 with wig wags on the north side.

No, I don't think I've been stopped at that one in either direction. The wig wags at Latchford serve a purpose now, but this confirmation signal (these show red to the control room when the signals are in all-red) that has since been removed and these detector loops suggest there were once interlocked signals on the northern bank here too, though I can't remember them.

I've just noticed a light on the south side too facing the control tower https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3782752 ... 384!8i8192