"Unsuitable for motors"

Discussion about street lighting, road signs, traffic signals - and all other street furniture - goes here.

Moderator: Site Management Team

User avatar
Chris Bertram
Member
Posts: 15744
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 12:30
Location: Birmingham, England

"Unsuitable for motors"

Post by Chris Bertram »

Having checked out the various accesses to Frinton-on-Sea, one of the three ways in is via a road signed as "Unsuitable for motors". Now clearly motors *can* use it, since the Google Streetview car has been along (and there was another car in the rear-view mirror), so ...

Highways guys (and anyone else in the know) - what determines when an "Unsuitable for motors" sign is placed? What are the implications for any motorist who passes the sign? As it's a rectangular sign with white text on a blue background, it's an information sign according to the signage conventions, so doesn't convey an actual restriction, after all.
“The quality of any advice anybody has to offer has to be judged against the quality of life they actually lead.” - Douglas Adams.

Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
User avatar
jervi
Member
Posts: 1596
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2017 16:29
Location: West Sussex

Re: "Unsuitable for motors"

Post by jervi »

Not a sign wiz, however I'd put strongly on the criteria:
1. Ability to carry out a u-turn before the point of no return.
2. Width / tight bends.
3. Road surface, or road surface ahead. I know of quite a few places where "roads" turn into muddy, rough bridleway or byways, of which are unsuitable (and in some cases illegal) for motor vehicles.

https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2387528
This one always comes to mind.
It is a paved public highway, which becomes a muddy forest track that is a BOAT (Byway open to all traffic). So despite what the old sign says, it is a through route for motor vehicles, although I'd suggest an ATV.
on the track
Also, that new sign was removed a few years ago when the main road became subjected to 30mph, however the side road (Cowell Lane) is not lit, and not otherwise signed so can be presumed to be NSL, which turns into the BOAT
Although the sign is still standing at the other end , although again the speed limit isn't posted here so could be assumed to be NSL as well
User avatar
Ruperts Trooper
Member
Posts: 12031
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 13:43
Location: Huntingdonshire originally, but now Staffordshire

Re: "Unsuitable for motors"

Post by Ruperts Trooper »

The few "roads" I've seen with the sign would be damaging to many vehicles - which is the point of the sign.
Lifelong motorhead
User avatar
andrewwoods
Member
Posts: 509
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 16:23
Location: Poole

Re: "Unsuitable for motors"

Post by andrewwoods »

It's my favourite sign :D

It's very likely* that I will be able to drive along there in my old Land Rover, even if drivers of Euroboxes cannot.

Andrew

*subject to appropriate rights of way.
User avatar
jervi
Member
Posts: 1596
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2017 16:29
Location: West Sussex

Re: "Unsuitable for motors"

Post by jervi »

Also one more thing.
I've seen the sign used when there are massive fords.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SenqOmSjOUo
Piatkow
Member
Posts: 2175
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 13:59

Re: "Unsuitable for motors"

Post by Piatkow »

I know of one narrow country lane near where I used to live that acquired such a notice. I fightened the life out of my passengers by taking a short cut down the road as I knew perfectly well that there was no real problem apart from the risk of having to back up to a passing place.

I just went to check it out on StreetView and found that they have replaced the sign with a restriction on commercial vehicles.
User avatar
multiraider2
Member
Posts: 3698
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2004 17:42
Location: London, SE

Re: "Unsuitable for motors"

Post by multiraider2 »

My very long standing avatar was a favourite of mine in St. Ives. Actually replaced by a newer version several years ago as see here. I've seen it ignored on previous occasions by vehicles who are not bothered by the 6ft narrowness. I am actually sat about a quarter of a mile from it right now.
BeenEverywhere
Member
Posts: 597
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 23:08

Re: "Unsuitable for motors"

Post by BeenEverywhere »

6ft? That just means fold the mirrors in on the Transit!
Been everywhere... can't remember any of it

Was fun though :laugh:
David D Miller
Member
Posts: 636
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2002 11:04
Location: St Andrews
Contact:

Re: "Unsuitable for motors"

Post by David D Miller »

BeenEverywhere wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 23:16 6ft? That just means fold the mirrors in on the Transit!
Done that, in a Transit! Entry to a French campsite during a thunderstorm which killed the automatic barriers: I was directed to use the footpath instead, through a gap about 1" wider than the folded mirrors. Really happy when I got the mirrors back and could actually see what I was doing!
User avatar
Bryn666
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 35755
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 20:54
Contact:

Re: "Unsuitable for motors"

Post by Bryn666 »

Basically if you drive down it and get stuck, the police will come and laugh at you before handing you a driving without due care lecture. You won't have any way to claim for damages, because you disobeyed the sign.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.

Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
User avatar
multiraider2
Member
Posts: 3698
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2004 17:42
Location: London, SE

Re: "Unsuitable for motors"

Post by multiraider2 »

As a counterpoint to my previous entry, this afternoon my wife and I witnessed a BMW X5 try to negotiate Bowling Green Terrace, St.Ives which they manged by folding the wing mirrors in, but then attempted an ill-judged turn down into Barnoon Hill. After several attempts, wheel spinning in the gulley etc, they just managed to get closer to both walls and sad to say only escaped by scraping their nice white paintwork on the wall. This manoeuvre was certainly unsuitable for this particular motor.
User avatar
Chris Bertram
Member
Posts: 15744
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 12:30
Location: Birmingham, England

Re: "Unsuitable for motors"

Post by Chris Bertram »

Found another one over the weekend.

Moden Hill in Sedgley is signed this way (there's a sign at the far end too). I didn't drive it, I walked it, and this is quite ridiculous. It has narrow sections, but not outrageously so, the road surface is intact apart from a couple of very minor patches, no worse than on the street outside my house, and there are quite a number of properties with street access between the "Unsuitable for motor vehicles" signs. There is one pretty steep section, but this warrants just the one arrow on OS mapping, not two.

So why the signs? Is it an excuse to skimp on maintenance? I really don't get it. Try stepping through it on Streetview, the Google car drove it from end to end with no problem, though it's out of date at the Catholic Lane end, the sign saying "Unsuitable for heavy goods vehicles" (which is entirely fair) has gone and been replaced with the current signage.
“The quality of any advice anybody has to offer has to be judged against the quality of life they actually lead.” - Douglas Adams.

Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
User avatar
Big L
Deputy Site Manager
Posts: 7517
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 20:36
Location: B5012

Re: "Unsuitable for motors"

Post by Big L »

Chris Bertram wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 13:05 Found another one over the weekend.

Moden Hill in Sedgley is signed this way (there's a sign at the far end too). I didn't drive it, I walked it, and this is quite ridiculous. It has narrow sections, but not outrageously so, the road surface is intact apart from a couple of very minor patches, no worse than on the street outside my house, and there are quite a number of properties with street access between the "Unsuitable for motor vehicles" signs. There is one pretty steep section, but this warrants just the one arrow on OS mapping, not two.

So why the signs? Is it an excuse to skimp on maintenance? I really don't get it. Try stepping through it on Streetview, the Google car drove it from end to end with no problem, though it's out of date at the Catholic Lane end, the sign saying "Unsuitable for heavy goods vehicles" (which is entirely fair) has gone and been replaced with the current signage.
Maybe a local councillor lives down there.
Make poetry history.

Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Help with maps using the new online calibrator.
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki.
User avatar
Chris Bertram
Member
Posts: 15744
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 12:30
Location: Birmingham, England

Re: "Unsuitable for motors"

Post by Chris Bertram »

Big L wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 13:17
Chris Bertram wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 13:05 Found another one over the weekend.

Moden Hill in Sedgley is signed this way (there's a sign at the far end too). I didn't drive it, I walked it, and this is quite ridiculous. It has narrow sections, but not outrageously so, the road surface is intact apart from a couple of very minor patches, no worse than on the street outside my house, and there are quite a number of properties with street access between the "Unsuitable for motor vehicles" signs. There is one pretty steep section, but this warrants just the one arrow on OS mapping, not two.

So why the signs? Is it an excuse to skimp on maintenance? I really don't get it. Try stepping through it on Streetview, the Google car drove it from end to end with no problem, though it's out of date at the Catholic Lane end, the sign saying "Unsuitable for heavy goods vehicles" (which is entirely fair) has gone and been replaced with the current signage.
Maybe a local councillor lives down there.
Ha ha, that's a thought. Two of the Sedgley councillors (all three are Tory, though that's probably not relevant) give their addresses on Dudley council website, neither are in Moden Hill. One just says "c/o The Council House, Dudley". Maybe it's him ...
“The quality of any advice anybody has to offer has to be judged against the quality of life they actually lead.” - Douglas Adams.

Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
User avatar
Chris5156
Deputy Treasurer
Posts: 16908
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2001 21:50
Location: Hampshire
Contact:

Re: "Unsuitable for motors"

Post by Chris5156 »

Chris Bertram wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 13:05Moden Hill in Sedgley is signed this way (there's a sign at the far end too). I didn't drive it, I walked it, and this is quite ridiculous. It has narrow sections, but not outrageously so, the road surface is intact apart from a couple of very minor patches, no worse than on the street outside my house, and there are quite a number of properties with street access between the "Unsuitable for motor vehicles" signs. There is one pretty steep section, but this warrants just the one arrow on OS mapping, not two.
I'm pleased to see that any motor vehicle that decides to brave it will be greeted with an increasingly rare flat-topped 30 sign.
User avatar
Chris Bertram
Member
Posts: 15744
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 12:30
Location: Birmingham, England

Re: "Unsuitable for motors"

Post by Chris Bertram »

Chris5156 wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 14:01
Chris Bertram wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 13:05Moden Hill in Sedgley is signed this way (there's a sign at the far end too). I didn't drive it, I walked it, and this is quite ridiculous. It has narrow sections, but not outrageously so, the road surface is intact apart from a couple of very minor patches, no worse than on the street outside my house, and there are quite a number of properties with street access between the "Unsuitable for motor vehicles" signs. There is one pretty steep section, but this warrants just the one arrow on OS mapping, not two.
I'm pleased to see that any motor vehicle that decides to brave it will be greeted with an increasingly rare flat-topped 30 sign.
... on the opposite side of which is an NSL roundel. There is no matching pair on the other side of the road nowadays - I suspect that Dudley council simply failed to remove it when applying a 30 limit to the road (despite it being essentially a country lane). Not that it would be in any way wise to try to get up to 60 along there.
“The quality of any advice anybody has to offer has to be judged against the quality of life they actually lead.” - Douglas Adams.

Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
yen_powell
Member
Posts: 179
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 16:17

Re: "Unsuitable for motors"

Post by yen_powell »

In Essex, the Unsuitable for Motors sign is placed where the asphalt road is likely to turn into either an unsurfaced UCR or a Byway Open to All Traffic. Sort of a last chance not to damage a normal car on 6-36+ inch deep ruts, flooding or glutinous horse-hoofed clay etc.
User avatar
Chris Bertram
Member
Posts: 15744
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 12:30
Location: Birmingham, England

Re: "Unsuitable for motors"

Post by Chris Bertram »

yen_powell wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 18:52 In Essex, the Unsuitable for Motors sign is placed where the asphalt road is likely to turn into either an unsurfaced UCR or a Byway Open to All Traffic. Sort of a last chance not to damage a normal car on 6-36+ inch deep ruts, flooding or glutinous horse-hoofed clay etc.
I hope nobody would disagree with those. But I've cited a couple of examples where this doesn't apply, and I daresay there are more.
“The quality of any advice anybody has to offer has to be judged against the quality of life they actually lead.” - Douglas Adams.

Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki today!
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Try getting involved!
Piatkow
Member
Posts: 2175
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 13:59

Re: "Unsuitable for motors"

Post by Piatkow »

Chris Bertram wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 19:33
yen_powell wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 18:52 In Essex, the Unsuitable for Motors sign is placed where the asphalt road is likely to turn into either an unsurfaced UCR or a Byway Open to All Traffic. Sort of a last chance not to damage a normal car on 6-36+ inch deep ruts, flooding or glutinous horse-hoofed clay etc.
I hope nobody would disagree with those. But I've cited a couple of examples where this doesn't apply, and I daresay there are more.
The, now obsolete, example that I cited was in Essex too.
User avatar
c2R
SABRE Wiki admin
Posts: 11162
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2002 11:01

Re: "Unsuitable for motors"

Post by c2R »

Chris Bertram wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 13:22 Having checked out the various accesses to Frinton-on-Sea, one of the three ways in is via a road signed as "Unsuitable for motors". Now clearly motors *can* use it, since the Google Streetview car has been along (and there was another car in the rear-view mirror), so ...
I used to use that bridge a couple of times a week (I had a relative who lived there), however, I was there the other week and chickened out and went and queued up to get back through the gates, as I think I would have got the car stuck on the railway bridge, or broken the front splitter off, or something if I'd have tried it...!

This one in Herts has been getting progressively worse over the last 30 years - I think that the council put the signs up and haven't been back to maintain it since... but you will get through it if your car will typically go over a sleeping policeman: https://www.google.com/maps/@51.8261499 ... 312!8i6656

As for this one, they're not kidding and you probably will get stuck, unless you're in at least a landrover with a snorkel, and that's in the summer!

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.9303145 ... 312!8i6656
Is there a road improvement project going on near you? Help us to document it on the SABRE Wiki - help is available in the Digest forum.
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Get involved! - see our guide to scanning and stitching maps
Post Reply