Signed route back on

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the cheesecake man
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Signed route back on

Post by the cheesecake man » Thu Aug 06, 2020 19:11

When you leave a dual carriageway at a grade separated junction you very often reach a roundabout or similar with a helpful sign like this random example showing the routes available in the conventional manner. There's also an exit from the roundabout back on the dual carriageway and this is shown but is not labelled.

So leaving the M18 northbound at junction 2 the roundabout sign offers you A1(M) north or south but straight on back to the M18 isn't labelled.

But leaving the M18 southbound here the option to return to the M18 is shown.

Why? Are there any other examples of this?

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Re: Signed route back on

Post by Nathan_A_RF » Thu Aug 06, 2020 19:18

Botch surely. There is no real reason why a grade separated junction can't show that with the simple diagrams as per your first links.
Here is an example near me. No reason here and would save a load of space on the sign.

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Re: Signed route back on

Post by jervi » Thu Aug 06, 2020 19:39

Nathan_A_RF wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 19:18
Botch surely. There is no real reason why a grade separated junction can't show that with the simple diagrams as per your first links.
Here is an example near me. No reason here and would save a load of space on the sign.
Ewww that one you shared is horrid.

I personally think that signage of dumbbell junctions need be altered. Currently in most circumstances you cannot show both roundabouts, however there must be a simple and easily understandable way of showing a standard dumbbell interchange.

OP, yeah thats a botch.

Some odd GSJ examples I know of:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.06735 ... 312!8i6656 - Has signed back onto the Main route, although here it is needed since its two GSJs weaved into each other.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.15861 ... 312!8i6656 - Leaving Gatwick Terminal shows the M23 Spur / A23 Spur as a GSJ, although it is just a normal roundabout
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.12761 ... 312!8i6656 - this sign seems to completely ignore the GSJ, and doesn't even show the road exists to the south! The other direction again doesn't show the GSJ but does show the southern arm.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.13261 ... 312!8i6656 - Round seems to of turned into square, and apparently the GSJ only appears on the right, but not left! - Also is meant to be non-primary. This sign may soon be gone since they are replacing the limited access junction adjacent to that sign. The sign approaching from the other direction was basically the same, however was replaced a few years ago with the introduction of a new roundabout.

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vlad
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Re: Signed route back on

Post by vlad » Thu Aug 06, 2020 20:22

There's this one here, on the A53.

The reason it shows the road ahead is cos the sign is a false-colour copy of an older sign (go back in time and you'll see it) which was put up before the flyover was put in. Either that or the Council knew there'd be the constant structural problems the flyover is having and so kept it there for when all traffic was forced to use the roundabout. :twisted:

There's something similar coming the other way.
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Re: Signed route back on

Post by SteelCamel » Thu Aug 06, 2020 22:07

the cheesecake man wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 19:11
But leaving the M18 southbound here the option to return to the M18 is shown.
I wonder if they're expecting people leaving in error wanting the M1 - they see A1(M) but aren't really paying attention and think it said M1 so take the exit. Then they get here and there's a clear sign that the M1 is straight on.
The sign on the other side of the roundabout (for traffic exiting the westbound M18) does not sign the route back on to the M18, which would agree with that suggestion.

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Re: Signed route back on

Post by c2R » Fri Aug 07, 2020 07:52

jervi wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 19:39
Nathan_A_RF wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 19:18
Botch surely. There is no real reason why a grade separated junction can't show that with the simple diagrams as per your first links.
Here is an example near me. No reason here and would save a load of space on the sign.
Ewww that one you shared is horrid.

I personally think that signage of dumbbell junctions need be altered. Currently in most circumstances you cannot show both roundabouts, however there must be a simple and easily understandable way of showing a standard dumbbell interchange.
It's also botched as the hole in the second roundabout is not in the right place. Have the designers never driven a car!
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Re: Signed route back on

Post by c2R » Fri Aug 07, 2020 08:01

I hate this one, but understand why it's there, as there is a sliproad that joins the M25 offslip: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.44162 ... 312!8i6656
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Re: Signed route back on

Post by Big L » Fri Aug 07, 2020 08:17

c2R wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 07:52
jervi wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 19:39
Nathan_A_RF wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 19:18
Botch surely. There is no real reason why a grade separated junction can't show that with the simple diagrams as per your first links.
Here is an example near me. No reason here and would save a load of space on the sign.
Ewww that one you shared is horrid.

I personally think that signage of dumbbell junctions need be altered. Currently in most circumstances you cannot show both roundabouts, however there must be a simple and easily understandable way of showing a standard dumbbell interchange.
It's also botched as the hole in the second roundabout is not in the right place. Have the designers never driven a car!
Problem is, which is the second roundabout? There is no indication on the sign of where you are approaching from.
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Re: Signed route back on

Post by the cheesecake man » Fri Aug 07, 2020 20:29

SteelCamel wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 22:07
the cheesecake man wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 19:11
But leaving the M18 southbound here the option to return to the M18 is shown.
I wonder if they're expecting people leaving in error wanting the M1 - they see A1(M) but aren't really paying attention and think it said M1 so take the exit. Then they get here and there's a clear sign that the M1 is straight on.
The sign on the other side of the roundabout (for traffic exiting the westbound M18) does not sign the route back on to the M18, which would agree with that suggestion.
That's an interesting suggestion. The only idea I had was that it was done for high vehicles avoiding the flyover in strong wind, but that doesn't make sense in one direction only.

I noticed today the unusual inclusion of M1 on the exit sign and this seems to support your idea :applause:

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Re: Signed route back on

Post by Gareth Thomas » Tue Aug 11, 2020 00:52

Nathan_A_RF wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 19:18
Botch surely. There is no real reason why a grade separated junction can't show that with the simple diagrams as per your first links.
Here is an example near me. No reason here and would save a load of space on the sign.
And it should say "London, Sevenoaks A21" as Tonbridge is not a primary destination. :-P

There's this on the A31/A338 junction for Bournemouth. Two reasons I can think of - a) the junction was previously a standard roundabout, and this sign is just a copy of the existing one, and/or b) the slip road from the previous junction for the B3081 has only just merged in, and traffic wanting the A31 might not have been able to get into the correct lanes in time.
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Re: Signed route back on

Post by Big L » Tue Aug 11, 2020 09:30

M6 J29
M74 J13 including signed route back the other way. Other direction does the same.
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Re: Signed route back on

Post by Stevie D » Tue Aug 11, 2020 09:58

Big L wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 09:30
M74 J13 including signed route back the other way. Other direction does the same.
All I can think of for that one is that it may be to help drivers going to the service station remember the route back onto the motorway. But it's a pretty weak reason!

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Re: Signed route back on

Post by Gareth Thomas » Wed Aug 26, 2020 22:55

Not quite the same, but after passing this gantry for "Southampton, Fareham M27", traffic on the slip road passes a sign for "Fareham, Southampton A27" (also seen in the link).
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