Keep it flat

[Conekicker]

Oh dear.
A curved STOP sign.
How very unlawful.
Someone really should know better.
And just shy of £96k, what a "wise" expenditure of the public purse?

https://www.highwaysindustry.com/highwa ... e-barrier/

Edit: if it's installed near street lighting the STOP sign also needs to be illuminated by internal or external lighting. How will that legal requirement be met? TSRGD 2016 S9-8-7 refers.

[ravenbluemoon]

Is that supposed to be installed in a closed lane on an otherwise live highway? I can see some confusion with motorists seeing a big "STOP" sign beside the road and jamming the anchors on.

I'm more disappointed that the cones didn't have lilac lights on top of them [runs]

[Conekicker]

Is that supposed to be installed in a closed lane on an otherwise live highway? I can see some confusion with motorists seeing a big "STOP" sign beside the road and jamming the anchors on.

I'm more disappointed that the cones didn't have lilac lights on top of them [runs]

I'd hazard a guess that it's for entry slip roads only. Which, if the entry slip is 2 lanes wide and used as a works access, will mean one lane will need to be left open. So does a works vehicle entering the site commit an offence by not stopping? If there's a lane left open, will this thing make any difference to those drivers who ignore road closures in the first place?

Lilac lights? Yes. Quite. Thank you for your input.

[ravenbluemoon]

Entry slips is about the only application I could see this being useful for, however I can't see it being better value for money as sticking a works van at the top of the slip as is fairly normal. I don't know about the legality of works vehicles obeying traffic sign/regs works in that situation. If signage has to be followed, then that would rule out wrong way driving in a works zone, for example.

Apologies about the lamp quip, I just get a bit exasperated at "innovation" for the sake of it. Thought I'd left that behind when I ducked out of the Civils industry, but sadly it's everywhere.

[Conekicker]

Exasperated at "innovation"?

Join the club. Roll on retirement.

[Bomag]

Oh dear.
A curved STOP sign.
How very unlawful.
Someone really should know better.
And just shy of £96k, what a "wise" expenditure of the public purse?

https://www.highwaysindustry.com/highwa ... e-barrier/

Edit: if it's installed near street lighting the STOP sign also needs to be illuminated by internal or external lighting. How will that legal requirement be met? TSRGD 2016 S9-8-7 refers.

It also applies to the whole carriageway. It will be like on the M6 Last Bank holiday where a TOV was on the hard shoulder displaying 'do not pass'

[jervi]

This does seem stupid. It takes 10 minutes to inflate. One of those trucks that have the back lowered into a cushion would be better as it doesn't require personnel on the carriageway to set it up, and can be done in seconds from a slow moving / stationary vehicle.

God knows how long it would take to deflate and pack it back up.

Confusing message (if on a dual carriageway which it is designed to be on), wouldn't "Lane Closed" or "Road Closed" be better as Stop in a typical sense means "Stop and give way to traffic".

I'd expect wear and tear on these to happen at a much quicker rate than any other temp safety equipment.

How about a better solution, keep things how they are and introduce a £120 PCN for anyone who disobeys directions from HE officers & vehicles, and enforced. That would keep people on the side of caution.

[Bryn666]

Exasperated at "innovation"?

Join the club. Roll on retirement.

I want to be paid vast sums to come up with this BS. Where do I sign up?

[RichardA35]

Exasperated at "innovation"?

Join the club. Roll on retirement.

I want to be paid vast sums to come up with this BS. Where do I sign up?

Send me a PM - Let's just say HE have ringfenced funds for innovation and some firms have come up with the magic formula for unlocking this money which appears to be burning a hole in their pockets.

[Bryn666]

Exasperated at "innovation"?

Join the club. Roll on retirement.

I want to be paid vast sums to come up with this BS. Where do I sign up?

Send me a PM - Let's just say HE have ringfenced funds for innovation and some firms have come up with the magic formula for unlocking this money which appears to be burning a hole in their pockets.

I would but I value my principles too much - and inventing giant condoms with a Stop sign on them might be where I have to draw the line

[Conekicker]

I want to be paid vast sums to come up with this BS. Where do I sign up?

Send me a PM - Let's just say HE have ringfenced funds for innovation and some firms have come up with the magic formula for unlocking this money which appears to be burning a hole in their pockets.

I would but I value my principles too much - and inventing giant condoms with a Stop sign on them might be where I have to draw the line

Richard, If Brynn ain't up for it, I am. £96k ain't to be sniffed at pal. I'm sure I could dream up something utterly useless for, oh, say, £50k. Tax free presumably? I'll take a cheque, make it out to "cash", OK?

How stupid and impractical does any suggestion need to be to get funded?

[Bomag]

Send me a PM - Let's just say HE have ringfenced funds for innovation and some firms have come up with the magic formula for unlocking this money which appears to be burning a hole in their pockets.

I would but I value my principles too much - and inventing giant condoms with a Stop sign on them might be where I have to draw the line

Richard, If Brynn ain't up for it, I am. £96k ain't to be sniffed at pal. I'm sure I could dream up something utterly useless for, oh, say, £50k. Tax free presumably? I'll take a cheque, make it out to "cash", OK?

How stupid and impractical does any suggestion need to be to get funded?

Well somebody suggested having third party audits of road works, deluded fool; or where they?

[Conekicker]

I would but I value my principles too much - and inventing giant condoms with a Stop sign on them might be where I have to draw the line

Richard, If Brynn ain't up for it, I am. £96k ain't to be sniffed at pal. I'm sure I could dream up something utterly useless for, oh, say, £50k. Tax free presumably? I'll take a cheque, make it out to "cash", OK?

How stupid and impractical does any suggestion need to be to get funded?

Well somebody suggested having third party audits of road works, deluded fool; or where they?

Behave
(my hourly rate is £50 plus expenses and travel time, OK? )
If you think that's too much, please note my lad is getting $500 an hour for a weekly one hour consultation with some Yank firm in California. So I'm a very cheap professional prostimatute...

[Bryn666]

Richard, If Brynn ain't up for it, I am. £96k ain't to be sniffed at pal. I'm sure I could dream up something utterly useless for, oh, say, £50k. Tax free presumably? I'll take a cheque, make it out to "cash", OK?

How stupid and impractical does any suggestion need to be to get funded?

Well somebody suggested having third party audits of road works, deluded fool; or where they?

Behave
(my hourly rate is £50 plus expenses and travel time, OK? )
If you think that's too much, please note my lad is getting $500 an hour for a weekly one hour consultation with some Yank firm in California. So I'm a very cheap professional prostimatute...

I've wasted my life

In all seriousness though, if this drive for innovation is going to be at the expense of the regulations, and no doubt justified by the nebulous "elf and safe tea", why is no-one doing a sense check on this?

If drivers are ignoring very solid barriers and parked vehicles and ending up in a works area, what actual benefit does this giant balloon provide? Other than something else for people to hit - and worse, putting operatives at risk whilst they wait for it to inflate. Presumably it needs anchoring down, so the passive safety element of it surely is in question as well. Am I over thinking this? Is why I don't get an innovation bonus?

[Conekicker]

In all seriousness though, if this drive for innovation is going to be at the expense of the regulations, and no doubt justified by the nebulous "elf and safe tea", why is no-one doing a sense check on this?

Because there's a budget to blow, errm, carefully and diligently spend.

Remember The Orange Zone from a few years back? Cost a king's ransom. Where is it now? Quietly pushed to the side and forgotten because, surprise, surprise, it was pants. The same will happen to this blow-up STOP nonsense. It won't be coming to a site near you any time soon because by next year we'll have moved onto the next "good" idea at ££££££££££££££ cost.

I strongly suspect DfT don't want to know what some parts of HE are doing, mostly on the grounds that these daft ideas never go anywhere. Having said that, one has to wonder why the likes of Transport Focus aren't questioning this expenditure of the public purse, given how dubious much of this "innovation" actually is.

The problem as I see it is that the HE innovation people don't ask subject experts within HE whether a contractor's latest "good" idea is a goer, (or even legal for that matter), BEFORE they go ahead and try it. I suspect that even if they do ask, when they don't get the answer they want, they'd ignore the experts and go ahead anyway - got to spend that budget, see? Lack of senior management oversight and different parts of the organisation having different priorities?

I don't know whether they still do it or not but the FHWA used to send a team of people overseas every year to visit other countries highway authorities, to see if they had any good ideas that could be used in the US. I'd like to bet that the expense of sending 10-20 people overseas for a fortnight is considerably less, (and possibly more cost effective), than spending what we spend on all this innovation nonsense.

[Bryn666]

In all seriousness though, if this drive for innovation is going to be at the expense of the regulations, and no doubt justified by the nebulous "elf and safe tea", why is no-one doing a sense check on this?

Because there's a budget to blow, errm, carefully and diligently spend.

Remember The Orange Zone from a few years back? Cost a king's ransom. Where is it now? Quietly pushed to the side and forgotten because, surprise, surprise, it was pants. The same will happen to this blow-up STOP nonsense. It won't be coming to a site near you any time soon because by next year we'll have moved onto the next "good" idea at ££££££££££££££ cost.

I strongly suspect DfT don't want to know what some parts of HE are doing, mostly on the grounds that these daft ideas never go anywhere. Having said that, one has to wonder why the likes of Transport Focus aren't questioning this expenditure of the public purse, given how dubious much of this "innovation" actually is.

The problem as I see it is that the HE innovation people don't ask subject experts within HE whether a contractor's latest "good" idea is a goer, (or even legal for that matter), BEFORE they go ahead and try it. I suspect that even if they do ask, when they don't get the answer they want, they'd ignore the experts and go ahead anyway - got to spend that budget, see? Lack of senior management oversight and different parts of the organisation having different priorities?

I don't know whether they still do it or not but the FHWA used to send a team of people overseas every year to visit other countries highway authorities, to see if they had any good ideas that could be used in the US. I'd like to bet that the expense of sending 10-20 people overseas for a fortnight is considerably less, (and possibly more cost effective), than spending what we spend on all this innovation nonsense.

As I understand it, the FHWA still do that. They have done stuff that involved looking at smart motorways - particularly given WashDOT have introduced a form of dynamic traffic management around Seattle. Whether it meant they visited HE or just drove up and down I don't know.

It seems the oversight failure is the "why" process - "why" do we need x, y, or z. "Because it's safer" isn't by itself an answer - the safest thing to do is close down the entire road network and prohibit ownership of mechanically propelled vehicles but we don't do that for obvious reasons.

[the cheesecake man]

It seems the oversight failure is the "why" process - "why" do we need x, y, or z. "Because it's safer" isn't by itself an answer - the safest thing to do is close down the entire road network and prohibit ownership of mechanically propelled vehicles but we don't do that for obvious reasons.

Horse-drawn vehicles can be dangerous too.

[Chris Bertram]

It seems the oversight failure is the "why" process - "why" do we need x, y, or z. "Because it's safer" isn't by itself an answer - the safest thing to do is close down the entire road network and prohibit ownership of mechanically propelled vehicles but we don't do that for obvious reasons.

Horse-drawn vehicles can be dangerous too.

And the emissions ...

[110ffr]

Oh dear.
A curved STOP sign.
How very unlawful.
Someone really should know better.
And just shy of £96k, what a "wise" expenditure of the public purse?

https://www.highwaysindustry.com/highwa ... e-barrier/

Edit: if it's installed near street lighting the STOP sign also needs to be illuminated by internal or external lighting. How will that legal requirement be met? TSRGD 2016 S9-8-7 refers.

...not to mention the fact that "STOP" signs may only be placed at a junction where visibility is so restricted that it is essential for drivers to stop before entering the major road. Chapter 3 also recommends consultation with the Police for their support on enforcement. In fact prior to the 2016 TSRGD, DfT approval was required before the sign could be installed (although i strongly suspect that several "STOP" signs local to me were installed without that little nicety ) . Doubtless this example was added by someone who thumbed through the regs and found a sign that "looked about right"

Leaving aside the "STOP" sign, it looks as if this inflatable "thing" is anchored purely by a few traffic cones. There must be a massive risk that in the event of a car hitting it (or in high winds), it would break away from its moorings and go bouncing off into the live traffic lanes, causing all sorts of mayhem as it went its merry way. I wonder if any actual crash tests have been carried out?

[Bryn666]

Oh dear.
A curved STOP sign.
How very unlawful.
Someone really should know better.
And just shy of £96k, what a "wise" expenditure of the public purse?

https://www.highwaysindustry.com/highwa ... e-barrier/

Edit: if it's installed near street lighting the STOP sign also needs to be illuminated by internal or external lighting. How will that legal requirement be met? TSRGD 2016 S9-8-7 refers.

...not to mention the fact that "STOP" signs may only be placed at a junction where visibility is so restricted that it is essential for drivers to stop before entering the major road. Chapter 3 also recommends consultation with the Police for their support on enforcement. In fact prior to the 2016 TSRGD, DfT approval was required before the sign could be installed (although i strongly suspect that several "STOP" signs local to me were installed without that little nicety ) . Doubtless this example was added by someone who thumbed through the regs and found a sign that "looked about right"

Leaving aside the "STOP" sign, it looks as if this inflatable "thing" is anchored purely by a few traffic cones. There must be a massive risk that in the event of a car hitting it (or in high winds), it would break away from its moorings and go bouncing off into the live traffic lanes, causing all sorts of mayhem as it went its merry way. I wonder if any actual crash tests have been carried out?

I never understood why the original round Stop sign for use on Stop/Go boards was changed to an octagon, given the meanings were completely different. One was "stop and give way" and one was "wait here until instructed to proceed". Subtle but crucial - and such a distinction would have worked here with this giant condom nonsense but alas, it appears understanding the nuances of sign language have been lost over time.

And people wonder why the road network is a lawless wasteland.