Double Stop
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Double Stop
Saw this yesterday
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.33992 ... 312!8i6656
Very strange combination of road markings that I don't feel are enforceable.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.33992 ... 312!8i6656
Very strange combination of road markings that I don't feel are enforceable.
Re: Double Stop
Probably are enforceable esp the mandatory stops from Grange Lane, and joining the High St. Where there is ambiguity would be if if there was a crash between a car from Grange Lane & another from Church Lane.
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Johnny Mo
Johnny Mo
- Vierwielen
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Re: Double Stop
An extension to this type of scheme is the "4-way stop" which is common in South Africa and I believe, in the States. The rule in South Africa is that you have to stop and then the first person to have stopped proceeds. When my aunt came out from the UK for a visit to SA, the roads in this picture were all single lane and she was most astonished when my father came to a total halt at the "stop" sign even though there was no other vehicle in sight.
Of course, a roundabout could easily have been built here (plenty of land), but that might require a little too much intelligence on the part of either the Apartheid-era government or the post-Apartheid government.
Of course, a roundabout could easily have been built here (plenty of land), but that might require a little too much intelligence on the part of either the Apartheid-era government or the post-Apartheid government.
Re: Double Stop
Looking around the junction, I see lots of signs on the approach that say "HIGH ACCIDENT ZONE". I'm not at all surprised! What a ridiculous way to control a junction with multiple lanes on all approaches.Vierwielen wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 22:31An extension to this type of scheme is the "4-way stop" which is common in South Africa and I believe, in the States. The rule in South Africa is that you have to stop and then the first person to have stopped proceeds. When my aunt came out from the UK for a visit to SA, the roads in this picture were all single lane and she was most astonished when my father came to a total halt at the "stop" sign even though there was no other vehicle in sight.
Of course, a roundabout could easily have been built here (plenty of land), but that might require a little too much intelligence on the part of either the Apartheid-era government or the post-Apartheid government.
Chris
Roads.org.uk
Roads.org.uk
Re: Double Stop
To me many US Stop signs require a double stop anyway, as they set the stop line too far back. Hence my common expression when I am over there, "once to comply" [at the stop line] "and once for visibility" [when I can actually see up and down the main road].
- Vierwielen
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Re: Double Stop
There is more than enough land to put a roundabout twice the size to the M40 J1 roundabout. They would not put traffic lights there because there seems ot be an aversion in South Africa to having automated safety features. As an example, at the level crossing close to where my parents lived a man was employed to sit there all day with a red flag to stop traffic when a train came (maybe once an hour). Eventually it became too expensive to keep him on, so it became an unguarded level crossing, well sign-posted with clear visibility in both directions (provided that you stopped). In the UK that woudl have been an ideal candidate for a controlled level crossing, but afte a few fatal accidents, the South Africans built a flyover (which coud not develop mechanical problems).Chris5156 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 00:55Looking around the junction, I see lots of signs on the approach that say "HIGH ACCIDENT ZONE". I'm not at all surprised! What a ridiculous way to control a junction with multiple lanes on all approaches.Vierwielen wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 22:31An extension to this type of scheme is the "4-way stop" which is common in South Africa and I believe, in the States. The rule in South Africa is that you have to stop and then the first person to have stopped proceeds. When my aunt came out from the UK for a visit to SA, the roads in this picture were all single lane and she was most astonished when my father came to a total halt at the "stop" sign even though there was no other vehicle in sight.
Of course, a roundabout could easily have been built here (plenty of land), but that might require a little too much intelligence on the part of either the Apartheid-era government or the post-Apartheid government.
Re: Double Stop
That whole little bit is an entire mess. The first stop line makes no sense as you can't see anything from it anyway, the second one doesn't have a sign, the give way lines are in an awkward place, both the first stop line and the give way lines make those roads look like one-way roads when they're not. What a mess.jervi wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:32 Saw this yesterday
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.33992 ... 312!8i6656
Very strange combination of road markings that I don't feel are enforceable.
I'm nobody special, just somebody who enjoys looking at and talking about infrastructure. Eager to learn as much as I can about the roads of the UK - please help me with this.
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Re: Double Stop
There is some logic to it. The first line requires traffic coming out of Grange Lane to stop and give way to traffic entering Church Lane from High St - though it's not clear who has priority if traffic is exiting Church Lane, as there's a Give Way line on Church Lane too. The second requires traffic exiting Grange Lane and Church Lane to stop and give way to traffic on High St.Britain wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 07:46That whole little bit is an entire mess. The first stop line makes no sense as you can't see anything from it anyway, the second one doesn't have a sign, the give way lines are in an awkward place, both the first stop line and the give way lines make those roads look like one-way roads when they're not. What a mess.jervi wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:32 Saw this yesterday
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.33992 ... 312!8i6656
Very strange combination of road markings that I don't feel are enforceable.
I agree it's a mess though. If it was up to me, I'd hatch out the "deceleration lane" and put a block of hatching between Church Lane and Grange Lane so they formed two separate junctions with High St. Or even make Grange Lane one-way away from the junction (the other end joins High St no great distance away), then the blind corner isn't an issue.
Re: Double Stop
In a similar fashion, the double give way line.
This recent installation on the A4 of Jersey features a normal Jersey give way line further back and in addition a UK-style give way line at the normal position.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/iBnU2SQC5WBAPsU2A
This junction as well has a double give way on two approaches.
This recent installation on the A4 of Jersey features a normal Jersey give way line further back and in addition a UK-style give way line at the normal position.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/iBnU2SQC5WBAPsU2A
This junction as well has a double give way on two approaches.
Re: Double Stop
Stop and give way - you stop and all you can see to each side is wall.
Re: Double Stop
*pulls hair out looking at stop sign on a backing board*
lose: (v): to suffer the deprivation of - to lose one's job; to lose one's life.
loose: (a): free or released from fastening or attachment - a loose end.
loose: (a): free or released from fastening or attachment - a loose end.
Re: Double Stop
Why do people insist on backing boards on the two specifically shaped for a reason signs? It drives me nuts too.
Bryn
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Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
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- Chris Bertram
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Re: Double Stop
If a backing board is *really* needed then STOP and Give Way signs need to be mounted proud of the board so that the shape remains obvious in snow.
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Re: Double Stop
The important bit is the "and", though. The sign gives two instructions. You must stop at the line, even if the way is clear. But it also denies you priority, and that's not just at the line.
Presumably the line is so far back so that you stop before coming into conflict with pedestrians (that you can't see because of the walls). Having stopped, you can start moving, but must still give way - which might mean stopping again, possibly more than once.
Re: Double Stop
So you stop, then edge forwards because there are no pedestrians in front of you, and you stop to give way to the traffic that has just been released from the nearby pelican.
You are still sat there blocking the foot path.
Having lost a mark on a signs test for answering "Stop" instead of "Stop and give way", that's one that's been burned into my head!
You are still sat there blocking the foot path.
Having lost a mark on a signs test for answering "Stop" instead of "Stop and give way", that's one that's been burned into my head!
Re: Double Stop
Because the people who do these sort of things shouldn't be designing signs. Or they could just RTFM!
lose: (v): to suffer the deprivation of - to lose one's job; to lose one's life.
loose: (a): free or released from fastening or attachment - a loose end.
loose: (a): free or released from fastening or attachment - a loose end.
Re: Double Stop
Internally illuminated circular STOP sign!. This one, and the one across the junction, sit on east/west alignments so at certain times of the year you can only really see the shape and not the sign due to the sun being immediately behind them.
Re: Double Stop
That's really inexplicable as octagonal backlit boxes exist, from the same manufacturer.Fenlander wrote: ↑Thu Sep 01, 2022 11:19Internally illuminated circular STOP sign!. This one, and the one across the junction, sit on east/west alignments so at certain times of the year you can only really see the shape and not the sign due to the sun being immediately behind them.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: Double Stop
Lincolnshire CC does like its oddities, there's a backlit 50 back to back with an external lit 30 with bonus backboard & flashing lights. I'm just trying to remember where I've seen a GIVE WAY in a round backlit too.Bryn666 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 01, 2022 11:46That's really inexplicable as octagonal backlit boxes exist, from the same manufacturer.Fenlander wrote: ↑Thu Sep 01, 2022 11:19Internally illuminated circular STOP sign!. This one, and the one across the junction, sit on east/west alignments so at certain times of the year you can only really see the shape and not the sign due to the sun being immediately behind them.
Re: Double Stop
I've seen post top Give Way signs back to back with a No Entry using the same light source (so double sided backlit), that's still a bit naff but it's better than the rounded Stop sign!Fenlander wrote: ↑Thu Sep 01, 2022 14:05Lincolnshire CC does like its oddities, there's a backlit 50 back to back with an external lit 30 with bonus backboard & flashing lights. I'm just trying to remember where I've seen a GIVE WAY in a round backlit too.Bryn666 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 01, 2022 11:46That's really inexplicable as octagonal backlit boxes exist, from the same manufacturer.Fenlander wrote: ↑Thu Sep 01, 2022 11:19 Internally illuminated circular STOP sign!. This one, and the one across the junction, sit on east/west alignments so at certain times of the year you can only really see the shape and not the sign due to the sun being immediately behind them.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck