Fibre Optic Mellors

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L.J.D
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Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by L.J.D »

Are there many of these left nowadays?
I started this thread because there's a set in Leeds about to bite the dust if they haven't already with the new cycling infrastructure works here.

So I thought I'd start a thread to round up all remaining ones because they are very rare now in these parts and I also wanted to learn more about them. Who they were made by? How they actually worked? Someone on here posted a Peek Elite with one attached to it as a right turn arrow is this still here today? I haven't seen much appreciation or threads about them on here so I figured I'd get the ball rolling.

Also the junction I posted surely is a massive rarity due to it having hallogen, LED and fibre optic heads all at one site.
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traffic-light-man
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Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by traffic-light-man »

They've certainly reduced in numbers quite quickly over the last few years in my part of the world. I believe they used to be a requirement on the trunk road network for green arrows, so a lot of the former trunk road routes were fitted with them.

There used to be plenty on the A580, A59 and A5036 corridors outside of the City Council boundary, presumably from their trunk days, but there's not that many left now.

So far, I'm aware of the following types:

'Large dot' arrow (like the ones in your link), which were made by FKI and later Signature.
'Small dot' arrow, which were possibly made by Pilkingtons.
'Small dot' arrows in an all-green lens, with the arrow outlined in black, possibly also Pilkingtons.
Broken (modern) arrow (like in your avatar), which were made by Variext.

I've seen pedestrian examples (red and green) of all of the above, too, though for the most part they seem to be extremely rare these days.

Edited to add manufacturers to 'small dot' arrows.
Last edited by traffic-light-man on Sun Mar 07, 2021 18:03, edited 1 time in total.
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Dave908
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Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by Dave908 »

There were some Fibre Optic-style Mellors in the St Helens area but they've been removed in recent years.

A580 Haresfinch Junction removed around Autumn 2009 IIRC.
Linkway West, Canal Street Junction lasted quite a bit longer, still standing in 2017.

Edit - Found some more at Haydock Island. Removed in 2015 when the junction was remodelled.
Last edited by Dave908 on Mon Oct 26, 2020 18:28, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by Gareth »

traffic-light-man wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 22:38I've seen pedestrian examples (red and green) of all of the above, too, though for the most part they seem to be extremely rare these days.
I used to see the pedestrian versions in North Wales quite a bit. We're going back to the 90s here though.

Sefton was a big user of the dotty arrows for years. Not many left now, like you say. I think there were still some in Crosby until not too long ago but I have a feeling they're gone now.

I think Switch Island had them back in the day too.
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Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by traffic-light-man »

Dave908 wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 14:51 There were some Fibre Optic-style Mellors in the St Helens area but they've been removed in recent years.

A580 Haresfinch Junction removed around Autumn 2009 IIRC.
Linkway West, Canal Street Junction lasted quite a bit longer, still standing in 2017.

Edit - Found some more at Haydock Island. Removed in 2015 when the junction was remodelled.
Indeed, the A580 used to have them certainly from Lowton all the way to Gillmoss at one time.

I think the last vestige of them in St Helens was the Cineworld junction you've linked to there, but others that spring to mind were the small-dot ones at Windle Island on the A580 and the Bird I'th Hand junction on the A58, both sets now gone.
Gareth wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 17:28 I used to see the pedestrian versions in North Wales quite a bit. We're going back to the 90s here though.

Sefton was a big user of the dotty arrows for years. Not many left now, like you say. I think there were still some in Crosby until not too long ago but I have a feeling they're gone now.

I think Switch Island had them back in the day too.
North Wales was a big user of the pedestrian ones, in fact it was in Mostyn that had the only set of Varitext ones I've ever seen. A lot of them lasted well in to the 2000s. Birmingham also had (has?) quite a number of them along the A38 heading out through Tyburn Road/Kingsbury Road, as well as on Broad St in the city, though I assume these have been removed now.

Sefton had a fair few sets of the Varitext arrows, as did Warrington. The Warrington ones lasted later, but Sefton swapped all theirs out for Helios heads around 2010 in one sweep. The one I used to have in my collection was an ex-Sefton example removed at that time.

I've got a fair number of photos showing signal heads fitted with fibre optic aspects of both the arrow and pedestrian variety that I can upload to the gallery if anyone's interested in seeing them?
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Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by Dave908 »

traffic-light-man wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 23:01
Dave908 wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 14:51 There were some Fibre Optic-style Mellors in the St Helens area but they've been removed in recent years.

A580 Haresfinch Junction removed around Autumn 2009 IIRC.
Linkway West, Canal Street Junction lasted quite a bit longer, still standing in 2017.

Edit - Found some more at Haydock Island. Removed in 2015 when the junction was remodelled.
Indeed, the A580 used to have them certainly from Lowton all the way to Gillmoss at one time.

I think the last vestige of them in St Helens was the Cineworld junction you've linked to there, but others that spring to mind were the small-dot ones at Windle Island on the A580 and the Bird I'th Hand junction on the A58, both sets now gone.
I don't remember any lingering after the Cineworld junction was refreshed, particularly as I remember St Helens started to refresh signals at a pace from 2017 onward.
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Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by traffic-light-man »

Dave908 wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 18:06I don't remember any lingering after the Cineworld junction was refreshed
Indeed, they were all removed and replaced with Siemens Helios LED heads, using new poles, heads and PBUs in a like-for-like replacement (unlike most other sites that were either reconfigured or upgraded to Puffin ped crossings and rest-in-red). I think the refurbishment took place in early Summer 2018, but it was one of the more recent sites refurbished in the (apparent) rolling refurbishment scheme (excluding the major works lately) which started around late 2014/early 2015 IIRC.
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Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by traffic-light-man »

Not wanting to steer too far off-course, but it's along similar lines, so I thought I'd ask here rather than start a new thread.

While heading in to the city yesterday evening, I went through a junction formally fitted with fibre optic Varitext type arrows, and it got me thinking...

Are there any non-fibre 300mm 'alternative' (3001.1) design arrows still left out there? I remember a set in Bradford fitted in Microsense MSH heads, but other than that, I can only really remember the first amber arrow trial Mellors that had them fitted, all of which I think are long gone now. All the other examples I can think of were/are fibre optic Varitext ones, rather than a regular masked lens.
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Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by L.J.D »

traffic-light-man wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:31 Not wanting to steer too far off-course, but it's along similar lines, so I thought I'd ask here rather than start a new thread.

While heading in to the city yesterday evening, I went through a junction formally fitted with fibre optic Varitext type arrows, and it got me thinking...

Are there any non-fibre 300mm 'alternative' (3001.1) design arrows still left out there? I remember a set in Bradford fitted in Microsense MSH heads, but other than that, I can only really remember the first amber arrow trial Mellors that had them fitted, all of which I think are long gone now. All the other examples I can think of were/are fibre optic Varitext ones, rather than a regular masked lens.
Damn I saw some MSH ones on street view the other week I can't remember where they were either. I know West Yorkshire used to have a a fair few about. I recall Dewsbury having them but they are long gone now. Could have seen them in Leeds ain't sure.

Again going off topic I've recently been told that some mellors in Sheffield at the Manor top tram stop junction have had the borders painted back on them (badly) and had LEDs put into them. They had the giant arrows so it would be interesting to see how they've done that. Apparently it was some arguing over the tram signals and the main signals. I think supertram refused to pay for new tram signal heads so the junction couldn't be renewed so they've had to do the best they can with the mellors they've got there.
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Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by traffic-light-man »

L.J.D wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 15:39Damn I saw some MSH ones on street view the other week I can't remember where they were either. I know West Yorkshire used to have a a fair few about. I recall Dewsbury having them but they are long gone now. Could have seen them in Leeds ain't sure.
Every time I stumble across an old set of MSH in the West Yorkshire area, it gets my hopes up, but to no avail!
L.J.D wrote:Again going off topic I've recently been told that some mellors in Sheffield at the Manor top tram stop junction have had the borders painted back on them (badly) and had LEDs put into them. They had the giant arrows so it would be interesting to see how they've done that. Apparently it was some arguing over the tram signals and the main signals. I think supertram refused to pay for new tram signal heads so the junction couldn't be renewed so they've had to do the best they can with the mellors they've got there.
I think they've been captured by the latest round of GSV imagery. They look to me as though some of the approaches have had new Ultra heads installed, but this particular approach had two LRT signals, so as you say, the Mellors were retrofitted rather than replaced. It looks as though the black-painted borders could just be the white paint coming off them!
Sheffield LED Mellors.png
I recall this being done somewhere previously using Swarco Futur3LED modules resulting in LED 300mm arrows, but I think they were subsequently removed. In fact, there are pictures in our gallery showing these at Hooley in Surrey.

Image

I wonder if the Sheffield ones are Swarco modules or they've gone with the GE GTX modules that I believe the newer Ultras were using?

Of course, given the exception for buses, they should be full greens :)
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Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by Nathan_A_RF »

An arrow is selling on ebay currently
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Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by L.J.D »

Speaking of Mellors it's not just fibreoptic ones that are becoming rare as hens teeth. It occurred to me the other day that these are the last remaining set of Mellors left in the Wakefield Council area I'm pretty sure of it! I think now except those the oldest kit Wakefield has is Elites! To be specific sites like these and these. Which I'm guessing are around the 20 years old mark. Is anywhere else in Mellor extinction yet? It seems to have crept up here I've tried to think if there's anymore left in Wakefield other than the set I've shown but I don't think there is anymore left here. It seems fitting too that the last Mellor installation here is fully intact too with no causal replacements at all.
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Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by traffic-light-man »

TfGM abolished their Mellor stock as a consequence of their area-wide upgrade to LED. The existing large Elite stock was upgraded using the Siemens Elite retrofit front doors, and everything else was replaced with Helios like-for-like.

There may be a few that survived, but I very much doubt it. The scheme was comprehensive and also included the LRT signals that are under UTMC's control.

Similarly, Kent County Council had an area-wide upgrade to LED using the TSEU 3G a while ago, so I suspect there are no Mellors left in their authority area either.

Some councils are certainly much closer than others to eradicating the Mellor stocks though, that's for sure. Locally to me, St Helens is the definite leader of this, though Halton can't be far behind. St Helens only have two (I think) Mellor sites remaining, and while Halton has a few more, they're isolated sites primarily around the Runcorn Busway.
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Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by L.J.D »

I think Leeds or Liverpool are definitely contenders for last places that will have them left in the future. Because I've noticed a trend with both councils. They tend to like getting as many years out of their signals as possible. Though I've seen some elderly kit knocking about around Glasgow too. Sheffield are pretty much eradicating Mellors too with the PFI except for the set discussed above. I think even in London they are starting to run low. Speaking of London there is a forgotten one which seems to have slipped through the net because its still in situ today here. I wonder how long that will last as it serves no purpose at all anymore but its been left there. Very odd. I'm pretty sure Kirklees has seen off most of not all of theirs too.
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Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by Rambo »

Warrington also still has quite a number of Mellors. Although i'm not big on traffic signals these are a couple i've noticed including some on primary routes.
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3836449 ... 312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3883889 ... 384!8i8192
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Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by Jonathan24 »

There are still quite a large number left in Northern Ireland too, but have definitely commenced a noticeable decline over the last 5 years or so. Here are a few examples:

https://www.google.com/maps/@54.563918, ... 384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@54.5849178 ... 384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@54.5162283 ... 384!8i8192
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Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by AndyB »

All three sites I know well, one in fact being 200 yards from my house.

I have reason to believe that there may now be no pure Mellor junctions left in NI - it's now quite some time since I saw a junction which had not had at least one signal head replaced with a Siemens Helios CLS LED, and the most likely to be changed seem to be pedestian heads. In fact, the same appears to go for the few sites with Peek Elites.

There are still a decent number of pure Mellor pedestrian crossings. Every time I go through the middle site, I can't help but think how ugly the 200mm Mellor ped signals look.
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Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by Jonathan24 »

AndyB wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 17:51 All three sites I know well, one in fact being 200 yards from my house.

I have reason to believe that there may now be no pure Mellor junctions left in NI - it's now quite some time since I saw a junction which had not had at least one signal head replaced with a Siemens Helios CLS LED, and the most likely to be changed seem to be pedestian heads. In fact, the same appears to go for the few sites with Peek Elites.

There are still a decent number of pure Mellor pedestrian crossings. Every time I go through the middle site, I can't help but think how ugly the 200mm Mellor ped signals look.
And I've just noticed that the middle one above isn't one of them!

https://www.google.com/maps/@54.5850127 ... 384!8i8192

But here is another I think might be full Mellor:

https://www.google.com/maps/@54.551886, ... 384!8i8192

On the junctions, I can't think of one either that is completely Mellor - I'm actually struggling to think of many more junctions with any Mellors, but I'm sure there are still a few more about.
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Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by AndyB »

No, that is pure Mellor - it's just late enough to be 200mm ped aspects (with the usual Mellor 200mm lens) rather than 300mm
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Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by Jonathan24 »

AndyB wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 19:06 No, that is pure Mellor - it's just late enough to be 200mm ped aspects (with the usual Mellor 200mm lens) rather than 300mm
Ah, I didn't realise there were different varieties of Mellors - I'm guessing this will be one of the last sets to be scheduled for replacement then, if they are one of the latter installations.
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