Fibre Optic Mellors

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traffic-light-man
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Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by traffic-light-man »

Jonathan24 wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 19:50Ah, I didn't realise there were different varieties of Mellors - I'm guessing this will be one of the last sets to be scheduled for replacement then, if they are one of the latter installations.
The first of the two is a wholly Monitron installation, controller and all. That type of Mellor was produced until the early 2010s, latterly by Traffic Systems Co-operative, until they stopped production in favour of their Zenith modular head.

The 200mm arrows and ped aspects certainly do look out of place on a Mellor, as Andy says, particularly with the ped heads. I quite like them for being a bit more unusual, though!
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Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by traffic-light-man »

Norwich seems to have a good stock of fibre optic arrows, assuming they're still in situ, mostly along the A146/A140 corridor.

This junction has FKI/Signature arrows, but also has a set of LED-ified ones, meaning another set of the 300mm LED arrows in the wild.

Further up the A140, there's two sites with a full compliment of Varitext arrows. See here, here, here and here.

Further along the A140 again are these Varitext arrows, which have much older Pilkington arrow relatives on a different approach.
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Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by Jonathan24 »

AndyB wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 17:51 All three sites I know well, one in fact being 200 yards from my house.

I have reason to believe that there may now be no pure Mellor junctions left in NI - it's now quite some time since I saw a junction which had not had at least one signal head replaced with a Siemens Helios CLS LED, and the most likely to be changed seem to be pedestian heads. In fact, the same appears to go for the few sites with Peek Elites.

There are still a decent number of pure Mellor pedestrian crossings. Every time I go through the middle site, I can't help but think how ugly the 200mm Mellor ped signals look.
I've just remembered this junction (prompted by another thread) which I think is still all Mellor:

https://www.google.com/maps/@54.5747447 ... 384!8i8192

And also the one further down the road (I assume the 2 red men in the single aspect is a quirk of the Google camera, rather than actually existing):

https://www.google.com/maps/@54.5780632 ... 384!8i8192
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Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by traffic-light-man »

Jonathan24 wrote: Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:52I've just remembered this junction (prompted by another thread) which I think is still all Mellor:

Link
Also a brilliant example (x2) of the closing amber for the right turn indicative arrow being used in Northern Ireland!
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Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by AndyB »

I'm driving that way in 20 minutes or so, I will report on the Castlereagh Road/Knock Road traffic lights later!
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Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by traffic-light-man »

Without wanting to drag the thread too far off-topic, I was having a look around on GSV following one of those links posted by Jonathan24, and I stumbled across this little Mellor junction. It's been imposed on by a rogue Helios, but it also has a Mellor with the additional leaving amber for the right turn indicative arrow.
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Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by AndyB »

Well, there you go. Both junctions Jonathan mentioned have no Helios casual replacements, not even a ped head.

Fibre Optic Mellors are completely absent from NI to the best of my knowledge.
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Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by traffic-light-man »

A lot of the ones I can think of were on former trunk roads, given the HAs requirement at the time for fibre optics arrows on high speed approaches. I think without that requirement, they'd probably be a lot scarcer than they are.
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Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by L.J.D »

Wonder how many ped heads were installed as fibre optics I know they are out there but I've never seen any in my life so they can't have been that popular. London didn't seem to be so keen on fibre optic full stop they did have some but not many at all. How did they even work? Were they like strands of cable just all together behind the green arrow mask? I'd be fascinated to see inside one.
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Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by traffic-light-man »

I believe they were required on high speed trunk roads (only as a matter of policy, rather than legally), which might explain their use (or lack thereof) in some areas, but that was only for green arrow aspects to the best of my knowledge.

As for fibre optic ped aspects, I'm not entirely sure what the benefits would be to be completely truthful. They are out there as you say, but are far, far less common than the arrow equivalents. The one and only set of 2 Varitext peds that I've ever seen were removed some time ago.

With regards to the fibres themselves, the the 'small dot' type ones bunch together at the lamp, yes. The Pilkington ones have a coloured front lens, and the Varitext ones have a coloured dichroic filter across the end of the fibres. The 'big dot' ones are a little bit different, in that the fibres lead to tubes that are quite a bit larger, but the fibres end in a 'chamber' where the lamp sits, similar to the others.

I'll take some pictures of the insides of an FKI/Signature and Varitext unit when I get chance. In the mean time, this is the dichroic filter where the fibres end in a Varitext arrow - the camera is where the lamp sits, which is an MR16, like you'd find in certain domestic spot lights.
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Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by Rambo »

traffic-light-man wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 15:25 TfGM abolished their Mellor stock as a consequence of their area-wide upgrade to LED. The existing large Elite stock was upgraded using the Siemens Elite retrofit front doors, and everything else was replaced with Helios like-for-like.

There may be a few that survived, but I very much doubt it. The scheme was comprehensive and also included the LRT signals that are under UTMC's control.

Similarly, Kent County Council had an area-wide upgrade to LED using the TSEU 3G a while ago, so I suspect there are no Mellors left in their authority area either.

Some councils are certainly much closer than others to eradicating the Mellor stocks though, that's for sure. Locally to me, St Helens is the definite leader of this, though Halton can't be far behind. St Helens only have two (I think) Mellor sites remaining, and while Halton has a few more, they're isolated sites primarily around the Runcorn Busway.
I've been around St Helens recently with work. The only Mellor site i have come across still going strong is this https://www.google.com/maps/@53.456286, ... 312!8i6656 and also a couple at the next junction east. I also passed one in Clock Face with fluorescent yellow border on the signal heads instead of the usual white. What would that be for?
Aside from traffic signals i have to say that St Helens are very up to date with road signage. I haven't seen any obsolete / old stuff whatsoever apart from one blue border. The same can't be said for other neighboring councils.
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Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by traffic-light-man »

The next junction along that you've mentioned is pretty much complete IIRC, but yes there might be one or two casual replacements.

With regards to the fluorescent yellow borders - I think they were just a craze to try and make the lanterns more visible. In addition to the Clock Face ones, there are some on the A570 outside Asda in the town centre, too. There used to be some on the dual toucan on Marshalls Cross Road beside Shirdley Park and one at M62 J7, until they were both LEDified.

It spread across the border in to Halton too. The old cross roads on the A577 at Watkinson Way in Widnes used to have the fluorescent backing boards too, until they were removed when the gyratory was built.

The primary lanterns at Switch Island were given yellow borders at one point in the not too distant past, but they were proper traffic sign yellow. They were pretty short lived though and were swapped back to standard white ones with the most recent improvement works.
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Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by Jonathan24 »

Rambo wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 19:39
traffic-light-man wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 15:25 TfGM abolished their Mellor stock as a consequence of their area-wide upgrade to LED. The existing large Elite stock was upgraded using the Siemens Elite retrofit front doors, and everything else was replaced with Helios like-for-like.

There may be a few that survived, but I very much doubt it. The scheme was comprehensive and also included the LRT signals that are under UTMC's control.

Similarly, Kent County Council had an area-wide upgrade to LED using the TSEU 3G a while ago, so I suspect there are no Mellors left in their authority area either.

Some councils are certainly much closer than others to eradicating the Mellor stocks though, that's for sure. Locally to me, St Helens is the definite leader of this, though Halton can't be far behind. St Helens only have two (I think) Mellor sites remaining, and while Halton has a few more, they're isolated sites primarily around the Runcorn Busway.
I've been around St Helens recently with work. The only Mellor site i have come across still going strong is this https://www.google.com/maps/@53.456286, ... 312!8i6656 and also a couple at the next junction east. I also passed one in Clock Face with fluorescent yellow border on the signal heads instead of the usual white. What would that be for?
Aside from traffic signals i have to say that St Helens are very up to date with road signage. I haven't seen any obsolete / old stuff whatsoever apart from one blue border. The same can't be said for other neighboring councils.
That particular junction has been afflicted with what I think is a Helios pedestrian signal?

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4563562 ... 384!8i8192

Presumably the original Mellor was damaged in an accident and it looks like the replacement has suffered the same fate, given the direction it is facing.
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Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by Dave908 »

Rambo wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 19:39
traffic-light-man wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 15:25 TfGM abolished their Mellor stock as a consequence of their area-wide upgrade to LED. The existing large Elite stock was upgraded using the Siemens Elite retrofit front doors, and everything else was replaced with Helios like-for-like.

There may be a few that survived, but I very much doubt it. The scheme was comprehensive and also included the LRT signals that are under UTMC's control.

Similarly, Kent County Council had an area-wide upgrade to LED using the TSEU 3G a while ago, so I suspect there are no Mellors left in their authority area either.

Some councils are certainly much closer than others to eradicating the Mellor stocks though, that's for sure. Locally to me, St Helens is the definite leader of this, though Halton can't be far behind. St Helens only have two (I think) Mellor sites remaining, and while Halton has a few more, they're isolated sites primarily around the Runcorn Busway.
I've been around St Helens recently with work. The only Mellor site i have come across still going strong is this https://www.google.com/maps/@53.456286, ... 312!8i6656 and also a couple at the next junction east. I also passed one in Clock Face with fluorescent yellow border on the signal heads instead of the usual white. What would that be for?
Aside from traffic signals i have to say that St Helens are very up to date with road signage. I haven't seen any obsolete / old stuff whatsoever apart from one blue border. The same can't be said for other neighboring councils.
I'm surprised the Hall Street and Atlas Street junctions have retained their Mellor heads given the pace of signal upgrades in St Helens recently.
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Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by traffic-light-man »

They're probably some of the newer Mellors in the borough, so if they're fairly low down the list for replacement in terms of asset age, it might explain why they've not been replaced yet. Having said that, another one that I thought would've been replaced by now is Peasley Cross Lane/Marshalls Cross Road, which still has (I think) a full compliment of Plessey Mellors that are likely to be exceeding 30 years old by now.

The Microsense MSH kit that's still kicking around in the borough will no doubt get the chop soon too I would think, some of that is looking fairly worse for wear these days.
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Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

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L.J.D wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 18:02 Wonder how many ped heads were installed as fibre optics I know they are out there but I've never seen any in my life so they can't have been that popular. London didn't seem to be so keen on fibre optic full stop they did have some but not many at all. How did they even work? Were they like strands of cable just all together behind the green arrow mask? I'd be fascinated to see inside one.
Here's some better photos of the inside of a Varitext arrow, like the one in your avatar. Each fibre runs to a small plastic tube making each 'dot' on the front of the aspect, there's no masks involved with one of these ones.
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Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by Rambo »

A few classic Mellor junctions although with a few modern replacements. Apologies if these have been mentioned before but i've recently passed them. Queens Drive https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4219005 ... 312!8i6656

Bromborough A41 https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3312636 ... 312!8i6656
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Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by Rambo »

One for Traffic Light Man. These part time lights have just been replaced with new https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3345677 ... 312!8i6656
I'm not sure why as i've never seen them on.
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Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by Jonathan24 »

Rambo wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 20:39 One for Traffic Light Man. These part time lights have just been replaced with new https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3345677 ... 312!8i6656
I'm not sure why as i've never seen them on.
I suspect they will only activate when the traffic is a risk of backing up onto the motorway. There seem to be detection loops in the road at the start of the offslip, so probably the lights are only on for short periods at a time.

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3349875 ... 384!8i8192
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Re: Fibre Optic Mellors

Post by traffic-light-man »

As Jonathan has mentioned, using queue loops is one common way of triggering part time signals. PT signal controllers are not switched off during the off time, it's just that the lanterns themselves are switched off.

I suspect it's less likely to happen with a motorway junction, but I do know of a set (of two arms, actually) that were installed as a pre-emptive measure to some major long term roadworks to deal with diversion traffic. The flows just didn't materialise, and as a result, the site has never switched itself on since comissioning. That kit is now on the books for removal and spares as it's just a maintenance liability.

I would appear that there was a huge cull in PT signals from HA (as was), turning lots of PT roundabouts in to normal signals, but I suppose if it's an isolated site that causes no issues and works better as PT, then why not keep it so.

This one often surprises me as still being PT, given its neighbour here isn't.
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