Highway authority border signs

[jervi]

Today I noticed these signs on the border of Greater London.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.30042 ... 312!8i6656
They are on both sides of the road, with H.A pointing in one direction and T.f.L pointing in the other.
I presume they are only used for road maintenance purposes, instead of using the "Welcome to xx" signs that seem to mark the county highway authority. Here there is a "Welcome to Surrey " sign SB, but nothing NB.

Are there any other examples of these signs (or similar)

There is no sign at the HE/Surrey Highway Authority Border which would actually be useful. From all my sources it just happens to be exactly where this cycle lane ends.

Also does anyone know how far up the A23 was HA before TfL look over the route in London?

[Steven]

Also does anyone know how far up the A23 was HA before TfL look over the route in London?

If you mean "how far north was the northernmost point where the A23 was ever Trunk", I believe it was at the southern edge of the old Croydon County Borough boundary. I'm not sure it was ever Trunk north of that point, but someone else will undoubtedly know better.

[jervi]

Also does anyone know how far up the A23 was HA before TfL look over the route in London?

If you mean "how far north was the northernmost point where the A23 was ever Trunk", I believe it was at the southern edge of the old Croydon County Borough boundary. I'm not sure it was ever Trunk north of that point, but someone else will undoubtedly know better.

That would be a better way to phrase it!
So that looks like the junction with Highfield Road/Edgehill Road, interesting.

[PhilC]

Not quite the same thing, but there are still a few boundary posts on the Birmingham/Solihull border near to where I live. I've no idea how old they are, but they've been there for as long as I can remember. I know that Solihull became a Borough in 1954 so they could date from around this time. At one time they used to be painted white with black lettering but it doesn't look as though they've been maintained in a while.

https://goo.gl/maps/AdSgJQCoJ259okMS9
https://goo.gl/maps/TRdje244961yvFyz6
https://goo.gl/maps/4y5H7UcgDm2AAZtQ9
https://goo.gl/maps/7TQrDCshGjhP4Tk26

The last of these is now so overgrown that you can't see it.

[Vierwielen]

... snip
There is no sign at the HE/Surrey Highway Authority Border which would actually be useful. From all my sources it just happens to be exactly where this cycle lane ends.

This cycle track ending is far less subtle. It appears that the Belgians do not have as many cycle tracks as the Dutch. Also, no border sign here - apart from the cycle track, this border is like the RoI/NI border.

[Chris5156]

Also does anyone know how far up the A23 was HA before TfL look over the route in London?

If you mean "how far north was the northernmost point where the A23 was ever Trunk", I believe it was at the southern edge of the old Croydon County Borough boundary. I'm not sure it was ever Trunk north of that point, but someone else will undoubtedly know better.

I think that's right. During the LCC era, the A23 would have been a Metropolitan Road within the LCC and continued as non-trunk within the County Borough. When Greater London was created the A23 appears to be one of the roads handed over to the GLC as a Metropolitan Road - not all main roads were, but I think main roads in the ex-County Borough of Croydon were.

I'm struggling to find a map that shows the allocation of responsibility, but I do have a 1970 written document where the length of trunk road A23 within the Greater London boundary is given as 3.2 miles. That appears to be the distance from the Surrey CC boundary near Hooley to a point just north of Purley, which I think is the length that was outside the former County Borough but within Greater London.

My conclusion would be that the A23 was trunk as far north as Purley from the creation of trunk roads in the 1930s through to the creation of the GLA in 2000, at which point the trunk road was cut back to Hooley and the remainder handed over to TfL.

[Steven]

My conclusion would be that the A23 was trunk as far north as Purley from the creation of trunk roads in the 1930s through to the creation of the GLA in 2000, at which point the trunk road was cut back to Hooley and the remainder handed over to TfL.

That certainly matches the 1956 Ten Mile Road Map (as well as the 1946, 1948 and 1955 editions) - unfortunately it's too far south for the London inset to get in more detail.

The black dotted line on that map show where Trunk Roads continued into County Boroughs (and presumably also Metropolitan Roads), and that's about the point it changes from dotted to solid.

[Vierwielen]

If one enters London using the A3, the location markers are quite interesting. The location marker posts on the side of the road appear to use the London/Surrey boundary as their reference point (at a point a little to the south of the Hindhead Tunnel, the reference point is in Portsmouth). However different locations are stencilled onto bridges over the A3. These appear to use a point in Central London, close to the Bank of England as their reference point.

[Britain]

Not quite the same thing, but there are still a few boundary posts on the Birmingham/Solihull border near to where I live. I've no idea how old they are, but they've been there for as long as I can remember. I know that Solihull became a Borough in 1954 so they could date from around this time. At one time they used to be painted white with black lettering but it doesn't look as though they've been maintained in a while.

https://goo.gl/maps/AdSgJQCoJ259okMS9
https://goo.gl/maps/TRdje244961yvFyz6
https://goo.gl/maps/4y5H7UcgDm2AAZtQ9
https://goo.gl/maps/7TQrDCshGjhP4Tk26

The last of these is now so overgrown that you can't see it.

Wow, I've always been fascinated by this kind of thing so thank you for sharing. They're wonderful. I like how you can even see the change in the road surface.