How accurate are distance signs?

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Having a cuppa
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Re: How accurate are distance signs?

Post by Having a cuppa »

traffic-light-man wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:38
Vierwielen wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 21:39
Having a cuppa wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 22:37 draught beer is sold by the pint
Draught beer might be sold by the pint, but it is usually delivered in 50 litre kegs.
This is usually the kind of discussion I would avoid, but I have to say, this struck a chord with me. I find that I generally feel both the entirely metric and entirely imperial systems are quite alien, which is purely a product of the fact I've been surrounded by this mix-and-match approach for all my life and practiced it for most of my working life.

When I managed a bar, I used to order '11s' from our supplier, which was an 11 gallon keg, but it would always be labelled and invoiced in metric at 50 litres (I think they used to call it a 'Eurokeg'). I then started getting smaller kegs for certain lines, and our supplier confusingly called those '30s', which were 30 litres and never referred to in imperial (at least by our supplier).
From my knowledge the thirty litre kegs are only really used for more premium European beers, with the industry standard for the British Isles being the eleven gallon keg. There are larger sizes, such as the eighteen gallon, but those aren't used as much due to how large they are. I also find it strange how the 11 gallon kegs you were referring to were labeled as 50 litres. Were the kegs imported from Europe or was it mislabeling?
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Re: How accurate are distance signs?

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Having a cuppa wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 23:41From my knowledge the thirty litre kegs are only really used for more premium European beers, with the industry standard for the British Isles being the eleven gallon keg. There are larger sizes, such as the eighteen gallon, but those aren't used as much due to how large they are. I also find it strange how the 11 gallon kegs you were referring to were labeled as 50 litres. Were the kegs imported from Europe or was it mislabeling?
Some of the more hipster craft beers are also in 30 litre kegs now, I believe. It was actually Guinness we started getting in 30 litre kegs, but that was a 'new' thing from our supplier at the time. They cost more per-pint as the 11s IIRC, but that was still better than the amount of wastage we would incur sometimes. It was the bar in a town's Arts Centre, so the bar wasn't open as often as a pub would be and if the conditions were just right, you could get about a quarter of the way through a keg and then not have opportunity to sell the rest before it needed to be written off as wastage.

I believe the 50 litre labels were something that were stuck on by our supplier who was a local company, rather than Heineken, Diageo or Carlsberg, given they all seemed to bare the same type of label. I do remember finding it strange that you would order and '11' and be delivered a keg with a 50 litre barcode. There were other labels related to the various breweries, but I only recall noticing the 'use by' on those.
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Re: How accurate are distance signs?

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traffic-light-man wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 12:12
Having a cuppa wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 23:41From my knowledge the thirty litre kegs are only really used for more premium European beers, with the industry standard for the British Isles being the eleven gallon keg. There are larger sizes, such as the eighteen gallon, but those aren't used as much due to how large they are. I also find it strange how the 11 gallon kegs you were referring to were labeled as 50 litres. Were the kegs imported from Europe or was it mislabeling?
Some of the more hipster craft beers are also in 30 litre kegs now, I believe.

As someone who is from the south of London, where there are hipster breweries popping up faster than Low Traffic Neighbourhoods, I can confirm some of them use the 30 litre kegs.
traffic-light-man wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 12:12 It was actually Guinness we started getting in 30 litre kegs, but that was a 'new' thing from our supplier at the time. They cost more per-pint as the 11s IIRC, but that was still better than the amount of wastage we would incur sometimes. It was the bar in a town's Arts Centre, so the bar wasn't open as often as a pub would be and if the conditions were just right, you could get about a quarter of the way through a keg and then not have opportunity to sell the rest before it needed to be written off as wastage.

I believe the 50 litre labels were something that were stuck on by our supplier who was a local company, rather than Heineken, Diageo or Carlsberg, given they all seemed to bare the same type of label. I do remember finding it strange that you would order and '11' and be delivered a keg with a 50 litre barcode. There were other labels related to the various breweries, but I only recall noticing the 'use by' on those.

As for the 11 gallon keg, perhaps the "11 gallon" is only nominal and in actuality it is 50 litres. Similar to how some people claim modern pint glasses actually hold 570 ml instead of a proper imperial pint. My theory is the kegs were actually 11 gallons, but they were labeled as 50 litres due to paperwork and the government recording transactions in metric units, and your supplier couldn't be asked to label it as 50.007 L.
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Re: How accurate are distance signs?

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Having a cuppa wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 23:41
From my knowledge the thirty litre kegs are only really used for more premium European beers, with the industry standard for the British Isles being the eleven gallon keg. There are larger sizes, such as the eighteen gallon, but those aren't used as much due to how large they are. I also find it strange how the 11 gallon kegs you were referring to were labeled as 50 litres. Were the kegs imported from Europe or was it mislabeling?
Sorry to drag this further off topic. Pretty much the norm for UK cask beer these days is the 9 gallon firkin. Some small breweries will supply 18 gallon casks (kilderkins), but pre-Covid at least some of the established family breweries still delivered in 36 gallon barrels of their standard, high-turnover beers. In fact, it is only around 20 years since Joseph Holt stopped using 54 gallon hogsheads, although I was told only a limited number of outlets had used them over the Christmas period for a few years prior to that.
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Re: How accurate are distance signs?

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Having a cuppa wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 16:53 ... snip ...
As for the 11 gallon keg, perhaps the "11 gallon" is only nominal and in actuality it is 50 litres. Similar to how some people claim modern pint glasses actually hold 570 ml instead of a proper imperial pint. My theory is the kegs were actually 11 gallons, but they were labeled as 50 litres due to paperwork and the government recording transactions in metric units, and your supplier couldn't be asked to label it as 50.007 L.
The Wikipedia article about English brewery casks does not catalogue any cask size that was about 50 litres.

My theory is that it was always designed to be a 50 litre cask and if the standard measure of beer was reduced from a pint to 500 ml, you would get 100 glasses per keg (less wastage). Like everything else connected with British metrication, they started at the top, got all the BSI standards rewritten in metric units, got industry working in metric units and then started introducing metric units to the man in the street.

When butter appeared in 500 g packages rather than 1 lb package, nobody had to actually use the words "gram" or "kilogram", but once it became apparent that the man in the street would actually have to learn to use words like "litre", "kilogram", "metre" etc, certain whingers started making themselves heard (including possibly Nigel Farage's original mentor) with the result that metrication stopped half-way. We can see it in motor-cars - cars are built to metric specifications apart from odometers, speedometers and tyre diameter. Likewise roads are designed and built to metric standards apart from road signs themselves, while if you go to hospital, your weight will be recorded in kilograms, and your height in centimetres. I was present at teh birth of my children and I noticed a hand-written metric-imperial conversion chart stuck up somewhere - the scales showed that my children weighed 3.50 and 4.07 kg respectively at birth.
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Re: How accurate are distance signs?

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Vierwielen wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 22:14
Having a cuppa wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 16:53 ... snip ...
As for the 11 gallon keg, perhaps the "11 gallon" is only nominal and in actuality it is 50 litres. Similar to how some people claim modern pint glasses actually hold 570 ml instead of a proper imperial pint. My theory is the kegs were actually 11 gallons, but they were labeled as 50 litres due to paperwork and the government recording transactions in metric units, and your supplier couldn't be asked to label it as 50.007 L.
The Wikipedia article about English brewery casks does not catalogue any cask size that was about 50 litres.
But those are ale casks, a rather different shape from kegs designed for pressurised beers. I don't know what size kegs were used by British brewers as this form of packaging became "popular" in the 1960s.

I remember being told back in the 1980s that lager was often supplied in nominal 11 gallon kegs, and that this was based on a metric measure. Seeing as the vast majority of the "continental" lager sold was actually brewed here, I don't know quite why this had been adopted. Possibly it was simply a size recommended by the actual continental brewers who had licensed their name or (in the better cases) provided significant input into recreating their product?
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Re: How accurate are distance signs?

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FleetlinePhil wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:03
Having a cuppa wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 23:41 From my knowledge the thirty litre kegs are only really used for more premium European beers, with the industry standard for the British Isles being the eleven gallon keg. There are larger sizes, such as the eighteen gallon, but those aren't used as much due to how large they are. I also find it strange how the 11 gallon kegs you were referring to were labeled as 50 litres. Were the kegs imported from Europe or was it mislabeling?
Sorry to drag this further off topic. Pretty much the norm for UK cask beer these days is the 9 gallon firkin. Some small breweries will supply 18 gallon casks (kilderkins), but pre-Covid at least some of the established family breweries still delivered in 36 gallon barrels of their standard, high-turnover beers. In fact, it is only around 20 years since Joseph Holt stopped using 54 gallon hogsheads, although I was told only a limited number of outlets had used them over the Christmas period for a few years prior to that.
You missed the 4-and-a-half gallon pin, sometimes used for a cask of winter ale positioned behind the bar. Also available as a PVC "polypin", within a cardboard box and suitable for home sale for a party.
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Re: How accurate are distance signs?

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Chris Bertram wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 14:36
FleetlinePhil wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:03
Having a cuppa wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 23:41 From my knowledge the thirty litre kegs are only really used for more premium European beers, with the industry standard for the British Isles being the eleven gallon keg. There are larger sizes, such as the eighteen gallon, but those aren't used as much due to how large they are. I also find it strange how the 11 gallon kegs you were referring to were labeled as 50 litres. Were the kegs imported from Europe or was it mislabeling?
Sorry to drag this further off topic. Pretty much the norm for UK cask beer these days is the 9 gallon firkin. Some small breweries will supply 18 gallon casks (kilderkins), but pre-Covid at least some of the established family breweries still delivered in 36 gallon barrels of their standard, high-turnover beers. In fact, it is only around 20 years since Joseph Holt stopped using 54 gallon hogsheads, although I was told only a limited number of outlets had used them over the Christmas period for a few years prior to that.
You missed the 4-and-a-half gallon pin, sometimes used for a cask of winter ale positioned behind the bar. Also available as a PVC "polypin", within a cardboard box and suitable for home sale for a party.
Indeed I did, and the even smaller 2 1/4 gallon piggin - I recall friends of mine collecting a proper cask of Old Tom from Roninson's in Stockport which I am sure was this size. Still, 18 pints of 8% beer might just be enough...
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Re: How accurate are distance signs?

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FleetlinePhil wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 17:03
Chris Bertram wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 14:36
FleetlinePhil wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:03 Sorry to drag this further off topic. Pretty much the norm for UK cask beer these days is the 9 gallon firkin. Some small breweries will supply 18 gallon casks (kilderkins), but pre-Covid at least some of the established family breweries still delivered in 36 gallon barrels of their standard, high-turnover beers. In fact, it is only around 20 years since Joseph Holt stopped using 54 gallon hogsheads, although I was told only a limited number of outlets had used them over the Christmas period for a few years prior to that.
You missed the 4-and-a-half gallon pin, sometimes used for a cask of winter ale positioned behind the bar. Also available as a PVC "polypin", within a cardboard box and suitable for home sale for a party.
Indeed I did, and the even smaller 2 1/4 gallon piggin - I recall friends of mine collecting a proper cask of Old Tom from Roninson's in Stockport which I am sure was this size. Still, 18 pints of 8% beer might just be enough...
Yup, Old Tom is potent enough to warrant sale in smaller bottles than normal - would have been 1/3pt (a "nip") in imperial days, may just be 200 ml these days. Nip bottles were usually reserved for barley wines such as Whitbread Gold Label and Bass No. 1.
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Re: How accurate are distance signs?

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Vierwielen wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 22:14 The Wikipedia article about English brewery casks does not catalogue any cask size that was about 50 litres.

My theory is that it was always designed to be a 50 litre cask and if the standard measure of beer was reduced from a pint to 500 ml, you would get 100 glasses per keg (less wastage). Like everything else connected with British metrication, they started at the top, got all the BSI standards rewritten in metric units, got industry working in metric units and then started introducing metric units to the man in the street.
The traditional cask (not keg) sizes are the ones in the Wikipedia article, though nothing larger than a barrel (36 gallons) is used nowadays. However, 11 gallon casks are unusual but definitely exist. They're often called "metric" casks, despite always being quoted as 11 gallons and not 50 litres. 10 gallon casks are even rarer.
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Re: How accurate are distance signs?

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swissferry wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 22:26 So the signage here is wrong as the countdown markers are on a lane drop and indicate the distance to the nose and taper (diagram 1042). Had previously thought this a little dangerous.
Wasn't sure if I should inform Traffic Scotland, Transport Scotland or BEAR Scotland, so informed all three and received a reply back from BEAR Scotland from message that Traffic Scotland forwarded to them advising "that we have made arrangements for the countdown markers to be picked up on next inspection for removal".
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Re: How accurate are distance signs?

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SteelCamel wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 19:54
Vierwielen wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 22:14 The Wikipedia article about English brewery casks does not catalogue any cask size that was about 50 litres.

My theory is that it was always designed to be a 50 litre cask and if the standard measure of beer was reduced from a pint to 500 ml, you would get 100 glasses per keg (less wastage). Like everything else connected with British metrication, they started at the top, got all the BSI standards rewritten in metric units, got industry working in metric units and then started introducing metric units to the man in the street.
The traditional cask (not keg) sizes are the ones in the Wikipedia article, though nothing larger than a barrel (36 gallons) is used nowadays. However, 11 gallon casks are unusual but definitely exist. They're often called "metric" casks, despite always being quoted as 11 gallons and not 50 litres. 10 gallon casks are even rarer.
A rather topical addition - tomorrow (Wednesday) Rishi Sunak, in his infinite wisdom (all chancellors are infinitely wise, except when they are not), will tell us how much tax we have to pay on beer etc. The current rates for normal beer and ale (ie between 2.8% and 7.5%) is 19.08 p per litre per percentage point of alcohol. Selling beer in 50 L kegs makes the calculation of tax easy. Thus the tax (before VAT) on a pint of 4% beer is 19.08 x 4 x 0.568 p = 43.35 p. It contains 2.26 units of alcohol, so in area where there is a 50p minimum per unit of alcohol, it must sell for more than £1.13.

While we are on the topic, the excise duty on still wine (ABV range 5.5% to 15%) is £2.97 per litre or £2.23 (+ VAT) per bottle and on sparkling wine in the same ABV range is £3.81 per litre or £2.93 (+VAT) per bottle.
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Re: How accurate are distance signs?

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swissferry wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 21:28
swissferry wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 22:26 So the signage here is wrong as the countdown markers are on a lane drop and indicate the distance to the nose and taper (diagram 1042). Had previously thought this a little dangerous.
Wasn't sure if I should inform Traffic Scotland, Transport Scotland or BEAR Scotland, so informed all three and received a reply back from BEAR Scotland from message that Traffic Scotland forwarded to them advising "that we have made arrangements for the countdown markers to be picked up on next inspection for removal".
Excellent, well done! Great that you reported it and even better that you had a positive response :D
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Re: How accurate are distance signs?

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Vierwielen wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 22:14
Having a cuppa wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 16:53 ... snip ...
As for the 11 gallon keg, perhaps the "11 gallon" is only nominal and in actuality it is 50 litres. Similar to how some people claim modern pint glasses actually hold 570 ml instead of a proper imperial pint. My theory is the kegs were actually 11 gallons, but they were labeled as 50 litres due to paperwork and the government recording transactions in metric units, and your supplier couldn't be asked to label it as 50.007 L.
The Wikipedia article about English brewery casks does not catalogue any cask size that was about 50 litres.
Vierwielen wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 22:14 We can see it in motor-cars - cars are built to metric specifications apart from odometers, speedometers and tyre diameter. Likewise roads are designed and built to metric standards apart from road signs themselves, while if you go to hospital, your weight will be recorded in kilograms, and your height in centimetres. I was present at teh birth of my children and I noticed a hand-written metric-imperial conversion chart stuck up somewhere - the scales showed that my children weighed 3.50 and 4.07 kg respectively at birth.
As I have previously stated, even in the United States, car manufactures use mostly metric, hence why engine displacement is now is now measured in litres instead of cubic inches. Also the entire medical field in the US records data in metric, but staff will give you measurements in lb for weight, and feet and inches for height.
Vierwielen wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 22:14 My theory is that it was always designed to be a 50 litre cask and if the standard measure of beer was reduced from a pint to 500 ml, you would get 100 glasses per keg (less wastage). Like everything else connected with British metrication, they started at the top, got all the BSI standards rewritten in metric units, got industry working in metric units and then started introducing metric units to the man in the street.

I don't think your theory is correct for a couple of reasons. In a perfect world, pub owners would be able to get exactly 88 pints out of an 11 gallon keg or 100 500 ml servings out of a 50 L keg. However in reality, due to spillage when pouring, how its stored and a number of different factors, you will lose a few ounces. Selling 500 ml servings instead of pints would be Orwellian. Quite literally because it is mentioned in the book 1984. The pint is so embedded in both British and Irish culture that it is has become recognized world wide as a symbol of the British Isles. For instance a common stereotype of the UK is some bloke named Barry going down to the pub to neck a pint. I'm not taking the ****, I live in the US and that's what I have heard. I mean its not wrong really... Either ways, even in countries such as Australia which went through hardcore metrication, a *******ized cousin of the imperial pint exists, which is the 570 ml serving. On a side note, I do wonder if the 570 and imperial pint glasses ever get mixed up. In the British Isles, the possibility of the imperial pint to metricated would be unfathomable. I can't speak on behalf for serious metric advocates, but I don't think even their brains are so twisted they would want to change the pint to 500 ml. Not to mention there are other kegs still in use, such as 6.5, 18, 21, and 36 gallon to name a few, so I find it unlikely the 11 gallon keg would be changed. One other thing, if they were going to change the pint to a 500 ml serving, wouldn't they have redesigned glass milk bottles to come in quantities of possibly 500, 570, or 600 ml?

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Re: How accurate are distance signs?

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Having a cuppa wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 13:39
Vierwielen wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 22:14
Having a cuppa wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 16:53 ... snip ...
As for the 11 gallon keg, perhaps the "11 gallon" is only nominal and in actuality it is 50 litres. Similar to how some people claim modern pint glasses actually hold 570 ml instead of a proper imperial pint. My theory is the kegs were actually 11 gallons, but they were labeled as 50 litres due to paperwork and the government recording transactions in metric units, and your supplier couldn't be asked to label it as 50.007 L.
The Wikipedia article about English brewery casks does not catalogue any cask size that was about 50 litres.
Vierwielen wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 22:14 We can see it in motor-cars - cars are built to metric specifications apart from odometers, speedometers and tyre diameter. Likewise roads are designed and built to metric standards apart from road signs themselves, while if you go to hospital, your weight will be recorded in kilograms, and your height in centimetres. I was present at teh birth of my children and I noticed a hand-written metric-imperial conversion chart stuck up somewhere - the scales showed that my children weighed 3.50 and 4.07 kg respectively at birth.
As I have previously stated, even in the United States, car manufactures use mostly metric, hence why engine displacement is now is now measured in litres instead of cubic inches. Also the entire medical field in the US records data in metric, but staff will give you measurements in lb for weight, and feet and inches for height.
Vierwielen wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 22:14 My theory is that it was always designed to be a 50 litre cask and if the standard measure of beer was reduced from a pint to 500 ml, you would get 100 glasses per keg (less wastage). Like everything else connected with British metrication, they started at the top, got all the BSI standards rewritten in metric units, got industry working in metric units and then started introducing metric units to the man in the street.

I don't think your theory is correct for a couple of reasons. In a perfect world, pub owners would be able to get exactly 88 pints out of an 11 gallon keg or 100 500 ml servings out of a 50 L keg. However in reality, due to spillage when pouring, how its stored and a number of different factors, you will lose a few ounces. Selling 500 ml servings instead of pints would be Orwellian. Quite literally because it is mentioned in the book 1984. The pint is so embedded in both British and Irish culture that it is has become recognized world wide as a symbol of the British Isles. For instance a common stereotype of the UK is some bloke named Barry going down to the pub to neck a pint. I'm not taking the ****, I live in the US and that's what I have heard. I mean its not wrong really... Either ways, even in countries such as Australia which went through hardcore metrication, a *******ized cousin of the imperial pint exists, which is the 570 ml serving. On a side note, I do wonder if the 570 and imperial pint glasses ever get mixed up. In the British Isles, the possibility of the imperial pint to metricated would be unfathomable. I can't speak on behalf for serious metric advocates, but I don't think even their brains are so twisted they would want to change the pint to 500 ml. Not to mention there are other kegs still in use, such as 6.5, 18, 21, and 36 gallon to name a few, so I find it unlikely the 11 gallon keg would be changed. One other thing, if they were going to change the pint to a 500 ml serving, wouldn't they have redesigned glass milk bottles to come in quantities of possibly 500, 570, or 600 ml?

(If you're wondering why some words have characters with diacritics it is so they wouldn't be censored)

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May I present one good reason to serve beer in 500 ml glasses? People who are watching their alcohol intake need only halve the ABV value of the beer to count the number of units they are drinking. For example, 500 ml of 5.2% ABV beer contains 2.6 units.

Also, according to Wikipedia, the 570 ml "pint" is not universal - in Darwin it is not in common use while in Adelaide, a "pint" is 425 ml while an "imperial pint" is 570 ml.

I am more familiar with drinking in South Africa, having been brought up there. Like Australia, South Africa used imperial units unitl the 1970's then changed over to the metric system. Draught beer was never common in South Africa - in a bar you would normally be given a glass and a bottle of cold beer.
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Re: How accurate are distance signs?

Post by Vierwielen »

Having a cuppa wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 13:39 ... snip ...
On a side note, I do wonder if the 570 and imperial pint glasses ever get mixed up.
... snip ...
Assuming that HMG have adapted the OIML recommendation R138 then a one pint glass has a tolerance of 3% either way (ie 16 ml). Thus a one pint glass can be called a 570 ml glass and vice-versa (assuming that the tolerances are otherwise met).
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Re: How accurate are distance signs?

Post by Having a cuppa »

Vierwielen wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 17:27
Having a cuppa wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 13:39 ... snip ...
On a side note, I do wonder if the 570 and imperial pint glasses ever get mixed up.
... snip ...
Assuming that HMG have adapted the OIML recommendation R138 then a one pint glass has a tolerance of 3% either way (ie 16 ml). Thus a one pint glass can be called a 570 ml glass and vice-versa (assuming that the tolerances are otherwise met).
In Australia, there are no specified quantities for serving drinks as long as the measures are to the nearest 5 ml. In the UK, a pint glass must contain one imperial pint and it must have a special stamp which shows it has been certified for trade.
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Re: How accurate are distance signs?

Post by Osthagen »

If we include RCSs, the most inaccurate example of such a sign I've seen so far, at least in Britain, is perhaps this at the Lincolnshire approach to the Humber Bridge on the A15. The sign lists 'Leeds 48', when Leeds by the quickest possible route is around 57 miles from that location.
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Re: How accurate are distance signs?

Post by crb11 »

By proportion, this one is pretty bad: 'Cambridge 1 1/2', whereas it's 4 to the city centre (not allowing for the access restrictions, which add a further mile and a half). It looks like they measured things to the city council boundary rather than the centre.

This one is pretty old and predates the A428 dualling. The one at Caxton Gibbet is also off by the same margin: this one got replaced in the dualling and they presumably just copied the distance over without remeasuring.
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Re: How accurate are distance signs?

Post by linuxrocks »

Vierwielen wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 16:53 Also, according to Wikipedia, the 570 ml "pint" is not universal - in Darwin it is not in common use while in Adelaide, a "pint" is 425 ml while an "imperial pint" is 570 ml.

I am more familiar with drinking in South Africa, having been brought up there. Like Australia, South Africa used imperial units unitl the 1970's then changed over to the metric system. Draught beer was never common in South Africa - in a bar you would normally be given a glass and a bottle of cold beer.
I'm from Adelaide, and back in the day, we mostly drank "schooners" (285ml). Fits better in the hand, and if you're a slow drinker, the beer doesn't have time to warm up like it does with a "pint". If you are in a hurry, it was a "butcher" (200ml), which for some reason increased in size with metrification. The butcher glass has a big knob on the bottom, supposedly so when the blokes who worked in the abbatoir went for a lunchtime beer, they had something to hold onto with their hands covered in slippery animal guts. I guess washing the hands took up precious lunch time. The glass was also small, so that the blokes didn't have too much to drink. Of course, the moment you went interstate, glass names and sizes changed. I would point at a glass and say that size.

As to road distances on signs, they've never meant very much to me. If it says 5 miles to where ever, I just drive until I get there and not worry about counting down the distance. Maybe that's why I seem to get lost quite often.
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