How accurate are distance signs?

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Re: How accurate are distance signs?

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Gareth wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 17:53 Whilst I'd be for it too, we shouldn't underestimate the scale of such a task. We're a big country with a hell of a lot of road signs.
You need to consider the various groups of signs involved.

Modern height/width/length signs are already dual unit, so wouldn't be a priority. The old Imperial-only ones are often well overdue for replacement, so could be tackled after the decision to change was announced but before it happened.

Signs with a distance plate to a hazard aren't necessarily safety critical, the few that are could be dealt with early on in a changeover period.
The difference between a distance in yards and metres is usually nothing to worry about.

Speed limit signs, the speed limit would be legally enforceable in km/h from a certain date, the presence of old mph signs would not be allowable as a defence in court. The signs would need changing fairly quickly though, as after height signs, they are probably the most safety critical. Given the change in the 2016 TSRGD, this could be an opportunity for highway authorities to thin out the number of speed limit signs on street, reducing the size of the task.

Directional signs are incredibly rarely safety critical, so could be changed over a period of a year or two. Metrication could also be a good opportunity to review direction signing provision and the need to have distances on many existing signs. For example, does a driver really need to be told the distance to the next three small villages on a B class or unclassified road?
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Re: How accurate are distance signs?

Post by Having a cuppa »

James1 wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 16:32
Chris Bertram wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 07:59
Having a cuppa wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 01:11

Now I don't intend to spark a debate, but besides from the financial cost and there being no real benefits to adopting kilometres on road signage which outweigh the cost, me and my mates prefer our miles and pints, and I think that goes for most Brits as well. Not to mention a YouGov survey from a few years ago showed the overwhelming majority of those residing in the United Kingdom (90%) think in miles.
Well, when you sign all distances in miles, that's kind of inevitable, wouldn't you think?
Exactly, things like this are always gonna be unpopular at first. The changeover happened here in Ireland not that long ago and we weren't bankrupted over it and now most people think in km instead of miles, the same would happen in the UK. Plus the UK is mostly metric anyway, why not finish the transition??
While the formal industries and fields use metric, imperial is still very prevalent in common life. For instance, road signs are in miles, draught beer is sold by the pint, people measure their height in feet and inches, and weight in stones and pounds. Lengths are given in miles and area is reckoned in square feet or acres. Railways operate using miles and furlongs and naval vessels use knots and fathoms. What was just listed was only a handful of common uses for imperial, but the United Kingdom isn't mostly metric, instead we use both metric and imperial when it suits us. As I stated in my previous post, I don't intend to reignite the measurement wars between SABRE members.
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Re: How accurate are distance signs?

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Railways use miles & chains, I believe.

I generally fine with people informally using imperial measurements for things. But the reality is we're mostly a metric country these days, especially for things like science and engineering; and ourselves and the United States are massive outliers when it comes to roads.

That said, most US states that had sequential exit numbering have been strong armed by the federal government into converting to miles-based, so it seems the US now has no intention of ever changing over, like it once did.
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Re: How accurate are distance signs?

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Gareth wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 15:02 Railways use miles & chains, I believe.

I generally fine with people informally using imperial measurements for things. But the reality is we're mostly a metric country these days, especially for things like science and engineering; and ourselves and the United States are massive outliers when it comes to roads.

That said, most US states that had sequential exit numbering have been strong armed by the federal government into converting to miles-based, so it seems the US now has no intention of ever changing over, like it once did.
National rail uses miles and chains. Local metro systems are increasingly using metric units - the London Underground, for instance, has measured its line distances in km (to the nearest cm) from Ongar - a place no longer on the Underground, ironically - for ages. The Tyne and Wear Metro is wholly metric, to my knowledge*, and I think the Midland Metro is too - the speed limits you see if you watch an in-cab video are all in km/h. Reports from other local tram/light rail systems would be informative.

* There is a stretch of line from Pelaw to Sunderland shared with National Rail - dual speed limits are signed, the Metro ones (km/h) in hexagon signs as opposed to the circular/oval (mph) ones for NR.
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Re: How accurate are distance signs?

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Having a cuppa wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 03:36 At least 40 mph will always be 40 mph no matter what.
... but 30 mph might magically change to 48 km/h. :stir:
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Re: How accurate are distance signs?

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Chris Bertram wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 16:42 National rail uses miles and chains. Local metro systems are increasingly using metric units - the London Underground, for instance, has measured its line distances in km (to the nearest cm) from Ongar - a place no longer on the Underground, ironically - for ages. The Tyne and Wear Metro is wholly metric, to my knowledge*, and I think the Midland Metro is too - the speed limits you see if you watch an in-cab video are all in km/h. Reports from other local tram/light rail systems would be informative.
Section 8.60e of this document which replaces guidance previously published by the Office of Rail and Road, and before that by HM Railway Inspectorate states that speedometers in all British trams should be in km/h.
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Re: How accurate are distance signs?

Post by Gareth »

Recall reading somewhere that the railway was planning on changing to metric. I can't really find much on it though, so I'm not sure if that's still the intention or not.
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Re: How accurate are distance signs?

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Chris Bertram wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 16:42National rail uses miles and chains. Local metro systems are increasingly using metric units - the London Underground, for instance, has measured its line distances in km (to the nearest cm) from Ongar - a place no longer on the Underground, ironically - for ages. The Tyne and Wear Metro is wholly metric, to my knowledge*, and I think the Midland Metro is too - the speed limits you see if you watch an in-cab video are all in km/h. Reports from other local tram/light rail systems would be informative.
Speed limits on Croydon Tramlink are signed in km/h. Know Your Road Signs suggests this is standard.
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Re: How accurate are distance signs?

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Having a cuppa wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 22:37 While the formal industries and fields use metric, imperial is still very prevalent in common life. For instance, road signs are in miles, draught beer is sold by the pint, people measure their height in feet and inches, and weight in stones and pounds. Lengths are given in miles and area is reckoned in square feet or acres. Railways operate using miles and furlongs and naval vessels use knots and fathoms. What was just listed was only a handful of common uses for imperial, but the United Kingdom isn't mostly metric, instead we use both metric and imperial when it suits us. As I stated in my previous post, I don't intend to reignite the measurement wars between SABRE members.
You do not seem to have kept up with things.

Many road signs might be in miles [and yards, feet and inches], but in many cases "200 yards" really means "200 metres". Also metric units are mandatory on new height, width and length warning and prohibition signs and driver location signs are entirely metric.

Draught beer might be sold by the pint, but it is usually delivered in 50 litre kegs.

People might measure their height in feet and inches and weight in stones and pounds, but doctor's surgeries use centimetres and kilograms respectively - see [url https://www.health-ni.gov.uk/sites/defa ... 10-001.pdf]here[/url].

Estate agents might use square feet and/or acres but the land registry uses hectares while house energy performance certificats (required when selling a house) are in square metres.

Existing railway lines use miles and furlongs, but new railway lines such as the Channel Tunnel line, HS2 and the new Edinburgh - Tweedbank Railway use kilometres.

All new admiralty charts are in metric units, including depths in metres andtide tables are quoted in metres.

In reply to the statement "but the United Kingdom isn't mostly metric", it is, except for a few highly visible things, best epitomised by my visits to the maternity wards when my children were born - the scales were in kilograms, but there was a hand-written conversion chart. That was many years ago. I understand that these days, the new mother is given a "Red book" which keeps a copy of the baby's record. The red book is totally metric.
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Re: How accurate are distance signs?

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Gareth wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 19:10 Recall reading somewhere that the railway was planning on changing to metric. I can't really find much on it though, so I'm not sure if that's still the intention or not.
I understand that this is the case. The reason is the the ERTMS signalling system assumes metric units throughout with an option to display mph on the driver's control panel. The UK must either have this "fudge" in their control panels forever and a day or convert to metric. The big advantage of ERTMS is that it is being rolled out across not only railways in Europe, but also in countries like India and it has been designed to be a "mix-and-match" system so as not to tie operators to a single manufacturer.
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Re: How accurate are distance signs?

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Vierwielen wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 21:39
Having a cuppa wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 22:37 While the formal industries and fields use metric, imperial is still very prevalent in common life. For instance, road signs are in miles, draught beer is sold by the pint, people measure their height in feet and inches, and weight in stones and pounds. Lengths are given in miles and area is reckoned in square feet or acres. Railways operate using miles and furlongs and naval vessels use knots and fathoms. What was just listed was only a handful of common uses for imperial, but the United Kingdom isn't mostly metric, instead we use both metric and imperial when it suits us. As I stated in my previous post, I don't intend to reignite the measurement wars between SABRE members.
You do not seem to have kept up with things.

Many road signs might be in miles [and yards, feet and inches], but in many cases "200 yards" really means "200 metres". Also metric units are mandatory on new height, width and length warning and prohibition signs and driver location signs are entirely metric.

Draught beer might be sold by the pint, but it is usually delivered in 50 litre kegs.

People might measure their height in feet and inches and weight in stones and pounds, but doctor's surgeries use centimetres and kilograms respectively - see [url https://www.health-ni.gov.uk/sites/defa ... 10-001.pdf]here[/url].

Estate agents might use square feet and/or acres but the land registry uses hectares while house energy performance certificats (required when selling a house) are in square metres.

Existing railway lines use miles and furlongs, but new railway lines such as the Channel Tunnel line, HS2 and the new Edinburgh - Tweedbank Railway use kilometres.

All new admiralty charts are in metric units, including depths in metres andtide tables are quoted in metres.

In reply to the statement "but the United Kingdom isn't mostly metric", it is, except for a few highly visible things, best epitomised by my visits to the maternity wards when my children were born - the scales were in kilograms, but there was a hand-written conversion chart. That was many years ago. I understand that these days, the new mother is given a "Red book" which keeps a copy of the baby's record. The red book is totally metric.
First of all, when I said "common life", I was referring to the units that are most commonly encountered and used in conversation by the general public.

Secondly, driver location signs aren't intended for use by the general public, but instead by those working for Highways England.

Thirdly, the most common keg size for beer and ale holds 11 imperial gallons (88 pints). You may have gotten confused with wine or European beer kegs which commonly hold 50 litres.

You also stated people measure themselves in imperial units, but doctors record data in metric. I live in the United States, which uses US Customary units within many fields, and even over here medical data is recorded in metric units. If you didn't already know, the US scientific and medical fields only use metric.

The HM Land Registry officially uses hectares, but as I stated, the general population reckon area in square feet and land in acres, which is why properties and land are advertised using imperial units.

Most of the railway network, excluding trams and closed systems, operate on imperial units and the supposed metric transition mandated by the European Union never took place and it probably won't, as the UK has left the EU.

While some admiralty charts are in metres others are in nautical miles. Distances are also signed in nautical miles, yards, and sometimes chains, however inner waterways, such as rivers, may use statute miles instead. Waterway speed limits are almost always in knots or miles per hour. Depth is indicated in both feet and metres and weather conditions may be reported in feet. There are also other imperial measures, which are used for other purposes in the naval sphere. I'm not going to bore you with all of the details, as I'm sure by now you understand imperial measures are still prominent in certain areas
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Re: How accurate are distance signs?

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Having a cuppa wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 22:20 Secondly, driver location signs aren't intended for use by the general public, but instead by those working for Highways England.
Driver location signs are in large letters expressly for the use of the general public - in particular so that they could tell the emergency services exactly where they are. They replicate the information found on the smaller marker posts. Also, an increasing number of ford depth gauges such as this one are in metric units only.
Having a cuppa wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 22:20 Thirdly, the most common keg size for beer and ale holds 11 imperial gallons (88 pints). You may have gotten confused with wine or European beer kegs which commonly hold 50 litres.
This website uses both. I stand partially corrected.
Having a cuppa wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 22:20 Most of the railway network, excluding trams and closed systems, operate on imperial units and the supposed metric transition mandated by the European Union never took place and it probably won't, as the UK has left the EU.
While distances and speeds on the railway network might be mainly imperial, railway vehicle dimensions are specified in metric units - next time you are at a railway station, check the lettering at the ends of the vehicles.
Having a cuppa wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 22:20 While some admiralty charts are in metres, waterway speed limits are typically in knots or miles per hour, depth is indicated in feet and metres in canals and in fathoms or just feet in other places. Distances are in nautical miles or yards, apart from waterways within the United Kingdom, such as rivers which may use statute miles. And different imperial measures are used for other purposes in the naval sphere. I'm not going to bore you with all of the details, as I'm sure by now you understand imperial measures are still prominent in certain areas within the United Kingdom.
I live within 100 metres of a canal and I often walk my dog on the canal towpath. I can vouch for the fact that there are distance markers every 500 metres - the closest one to my house is marked "34.0 km". This is not unique in the United Kingdom - see here, here and here. Yes, many other warterways have marker posts calibrated in miles, but the newer ones are all in kilometres.

Finally, the recommended distance for "social distancing" in the United Kingdom is 2 metres and this is something that affects everybody.
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Re: How accurate are distance signs?

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Vierwielen wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 23:25
Having a cuppa wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 22:20 Secondly, driver location signs aren't intended for use by the general public, but instead by those working for Highways England.
Driver location signs are in large letters expressly for the use of the general public - in particular so that they could tell the emergency services exactly where they are. They replicate the information found on the smaller marker posts. Also, an increasing number of ford depth gauges such as this one are in metric units only.
Having a cuppa wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 22:20 Thirdly, the most common keg size for beer and ale holds 11 imperial gallons (88 pints). You may have gotten confused with wine or European beer kegs which commonly hold 50 litres.
This website uses both. I stand partially corrected.
Having a cuppa wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 22:20 Most of the railway network, excluding trams and closed systems, operate on imperial units and the supposed metric transition mandated by the European Union never took place and it probably won't, as the UK has left the EU.
While distances and speeds on the railway network might be mainly imperial, railway vehicle dimensions are specified in metric units - next time you are at a railway station, check the lettering at the ends of the vehicles.
Having a cuppa wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 22:20 While some admiralty charts are in metres, waterway speed limits are typically in knots or miles per hour, depth is indicated in feet and metres in canals and in fathoms or just feet in other places. Distances are in nautical miles or yards, apart from waterways within the United Kingdom, such as rivers which may use statute miles. And different imperial measures are used for other purposes in the naval sphere. I'm not going to bore you with all of the details, as I'm sure by now you understand imperial measures are still prominent in certain areas within the United Kingdom.
I live within 100 metres of a canal and I often walk my dog on the canal towpath. I can vouch for the fact that there are distance markers every 500 metres - the closest one to my house is marked "34.0 km". This is not unique in the United Kingdom - see here, here and here. Yes, many other warterways have marker posts calibrated in miles, but the newer ones are all in kilometres.

Finally, the recommended distance for "social distancing" in the United Kingdom is 2 metres and this is something that affects everybody.
Driver location signs are used for exceptional circumstances, such as emergency situations. A milepost sign designed to be used by motorists on a regular basis would probably state the mile and motorway they are traveling on, similar to the milepost signs on US highways. Your claim of metric only depth gauges may be valid, but the official depth gauges must display either imperial, or both imperial and metric units, and those are the depth gauges I have encountered the most while traveling. https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:UK_ ... 013.pdf/51

I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion all of the newer marker posts are in kilometres, perhaps you can elaborate? I know waterway signage in places such as Birmingham for instance, are in miles and those signs are new. Not to mention larger vessels operating on the coast will use yards for distance, alongside nautical miles, and feet for other purposes, such as measuring depth.

While the official guidance for social distancing in the UK is 2 metres, it is because remnants of EU law require the use of metric for matters regarding public health. How often have you seen keep 2m appear on signs recently? The new saying is simply "keep your distance", which appears on temporary road signs, billboards, bus stop messages, and is reiterating by our chum Boris. Even on signage where distance does appear, it is typically in both feet, as 6'-6" :) or 6.5' and metres. Maybe it is a coincidence the government shifted from using 2m to the more broad "social distance" slogan, but I personally suspect either people didn't know the actual distance of 2 metres, or they didn't care. Probably a bit of both.
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Re: How accurate are distance signs?

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Having a cuppa wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 00:01
While the official guidance for social distancing in the UK is 2 metres, it is because remnants of EU law require the use of metric for matters regarding public health. How often have you seen keep 2m appear on signs recently? The new saying is simply "keep your distance", which appears on temporary road signs, billboards, bus stop messages, and is reiterating by our chum Boris. Even on signage where distance does appear, it is typically in both feet, as 6'-6" :) or 6.5' and metres. Maybe it is a coincidence the government shifted from using 2m to the more broad "social distance" slogan, but I personally suspect either people didn't know the actual distance of 2 metres, or they didn't care. Probably a bit of both.
The use of 2m for social distancing is because most people in the UK have been educated in metric - and the oldies who were educated in solely Imperial can cope with using the 6' approximation.

You live in America - does America have any advantage using US Customary that the UK doesn't have using a mixed Metric/Imperial system - seems to me like you advocate the change for the sake of it - without a clear benefit of change, there's no value in changing just because it's not the system we'd choose if starting from nothing.
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Re: How accurate are distance signs?

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Having a cuppa wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 22:37
James1 wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 16:32
Chris Bertram wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 07:59 Well, when you sign all distances in miles, that's kind of inevitable, wouldn't you think?
Exactly, things like this are always gonna be unpopular at first. The changeover happened here in Ireland not that long ago and we weren't bankrupted over it and now most people think in km instead of miles, the same would happen in the UK. Plus the UK is mostly metric anyway, why not finish the transition??
While the formal industries and fields use metric, imperial is still very prevalent in common life. For instance, road signs are in miles, draught beer is sold by the pint, people measure their height in feet and inches, and weight in stones and pounds. Lengths are given in miles and area is reckoned in square feet or acres. Railways operate using miles and furlongs and naval vessels use knots and fathoms. What was just listed was only a handful of common uses for imperial, but the United Kingdom isn't mostly metric, instead we use both metric and imperial when it suits us. As I stated in my previous post, I don't intend to reignite the measurement wars between SABRE members.
The reality is whether you like it or not the UK is already mostly metric with the big exception being road and most rail signs that show distance in miles/mph and pints (only in a pub). All the other things you mentioned are given in dual measurements for example area will be given in acres and hectares. The rest of the things you have mentioned are purely coloquial terms that will die out sooner or later. Most young people weigh themselves in kg for example. As time goes on more and more people are gonna change from imperial to metric for day to day things and your gonna be in a really weird situation in 30 years time where almost everything is metric and almost everyone uses metric but distance signs still in imperial.
The UK being so close to Europe is another reason this change is inevitable regardless of brexit.
From what I've heard interestingly the exact opposite seems to be happening across the Atlantic where Canada is trying to go metric but is stuck with many imperial measures because it is so close to the US
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Re: How accurate are distance signs?

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James1 wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:51From what I've heard interestingly the exact opposite seems to be happening across the Atlantic where Canada is trying to go metric but is stuck with many imperial measures because it is so close to the US
Canada drives in km, with speed limits in km/h.

However, for draft beer, Canada has stuck with fl oz - Imperial, rather than the slightly different US version - and a pint is therefore the same as a UK pint, 20 fl oz, not 16. This is one area where continued alignment with US measures is entirely unnecessary, so we have to assume that tradition holds sway there as in the UK. Bottles and cans are nevertheless in ml quantities.
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Re: How accurate are distance signs?

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James1 wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:51
The reality is whether you like it or not the UK is already mostly metric with the big exception being road and most rail signs that show distance in miles/mph and pints (only in a pub). All the other things you mentioned are given in dual measurements for example area will be given in acres and hectares. The rest of the things you have mentioned are purely coloquial terms that will die out sooner or later. Most young people weigh themselves in kg for example. As time goes on more and more people are gonna change from imperial to metric for day to day things and your gonna be in a really weird situation in 30 years time where almost everything is metric and almost everyone uses metric but distance signs still in imperial.
The UK being so close to Europe is another reason this change is inevitable regardless of brexit.
From what I've heard interestingly the exact opposite seems to be happening across the Atlantic where Canada is trying to go metric but is stuck with many imperial measures because it is so close to the US
While the use of some imperial measurements will decrease, certain things, such as measuring height or land area, will still be continued to be reckoned in imperial units for the foreseeable future, as it will be passed down from generation to generation. As long as road signs are still in imperial units, most people living in the UK will continue to measure distance in miles as there will be no force of change. Imperial units are still prevalent in daily life so it is very hard to argue the UK is mostly metric. A few times foreigners have asked me what measures are used in the UK and one even referenced a random Indian on Quora (I'm not taking the ****) and thought the UK uses "mostly metric", as you claim. In each instance, I had to explain that the UK uses metric for all scientific and medical purposes, and in most industries, but road signs are in imperial and the general public use imperial to measure height, weight, area, etcetera. It is a common misconception as each time, those same people have said it seems like more of a mix of systems. Of course, my experience isn't comparative to scientific surveys, but I thought I would mention it.

As a British-expat living in the States with contacts in Canada, it is only the Quebecians who want to fully convert to metric. Those on the western side of Canada are content with the way things are. Since the public in Canada is less informed about weights and measures than the intellectuals on SABRE, it has led to a mix up of imperial and US Customary at times. Canada will also never fully convert to metric as it uses the North American standards for many applications, such as construction, and half of the material is imported from the US, which uses US Customary, and generally Canadians are an odd species. However, I encourage they keep on using the imperial system, as if I ever want a proper pint, instead of the 16 US fl oz BS, I could just hop north of the border for a day. :D
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Re: How accurate are distance signs?

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Having a cuppa wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 13:28
James1 wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:51
The reality is whether you like it or not the UK is already mostly metric with the big exception being road and most rail signs that show distance in miles/mph and pints (only in a pub). All the other things you mentioned are given in dual measurements for example area will be given in acres and hectares. The rest of the things you have mentioned are purely coloquial terms that will die out sooner or later. Most young people weigh themselves in kg for example. As time goes on more and more people are gonna change from imperial to metric for day to day things and your gonna be in a really weird situation in 30 years time where almost everything is metric and almost everyone uses metric but distance signs still in imperial.
The UK being so close to Europe is another reason this change is inevitable regardless of brexit.
From what I've heard interestingly the exact opposite seems to be happening across the Atlantic where Canada is trying to go metric but is stuck with many imperial measures because it is so close to the US
While the use of some imperial measurements will decrease, certain things, such as measuring height or land area, will still be continued to be reckoned in imperial units for the foreseeable future, as it will be passed down from generation to generation. As long as road signs are still in imperial units, most people living in the UK will continue to measure distance in miles as there will be no force of change. Imperial units are still prevalent in daily life so it is very hard to argue the UK is mostly metric. A few times foreigners have asked me what measures are used in the UK and one even referenced a random Indian on Quora (I'm not taking the ****) and thought the UK uses "mostly metric", as you claim. In each instance, I had to explain that the UK uses metric for all scientific and medical purposes, and in most industries, but road signs are in imperial and the general public use imperial to measure height, weight, area, etcetera. It is a common misconception as each time, those same people have said it seems like more of a mix of systems. Of course, my experience isn't comparative to scientific surveys, but I thought I would mention it.
Your experience is interesting and may be representative - I'm not sure. Certainly my group of friends and family are far more metric-friendly than you - we measure weight, height and area in metric measures, with miles, and miles per hour, being the only imperial measurements we use often.
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Re: How accurate are distance signs?

Post by Ruperts Trooper »

Having a cuppa wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 13:28
James1 wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:51
The reality is whether you like it or not the UK is already mostly metric with the big exception being road and most rail signs that show distance in miles/mph and pints (only in a pub). All the other things you mentioned are given in dual measurements for example area will be given in acres and hectares. The rest of the things you have mentioned are purely coloquial terms that will die out sooner or later. Most young people weigh themselves in kg for example. As time goes on more and more people are gonna change from imperial to metric for day to day things and your gonna be in a really weird situation in 30 years time where almost everything is metric and almost everyone uses metric but distance signs still in imperial.
The UK being so close to Europe is another reason this change is inevitable regardless of brexit.
From what I've heard interestingly the exact opposite seems to be happening across the Atlantic where Canada is trying to go metric but is stuck with many imperial measures because it is so close to the US
While the use of some imperial measurements will decrease, certain things, such as measuring height or land area, will still be continued to be reckoned in imperial units for the foreseeable future, as it will be passed down from generation to generation. As long as road signs are still in imperial units, most people living in the UK will continue to measure distance in miles as there will be no force of change. Imperial units are still prevalent in daily life so it is very hard to argue the UK is mostly metric. A few times foreigners have asked me what measures are used in the UK and one even referenced a random Indian on Quora (I'm not taking the ****) and thought the UK uses "mostly metric", as you claim. In each instance, I had to explain that the UK uses metric for all scientific and medical purposes, and in most industries, but road signs are in imperial and the general public use imperial to measure height, weight, area, etcetera. It is a common misconception as each time, those same people have said it seems like more of a mix of systems. Of course, my experience isn't comparative to scientific surveys, but I thought I would mention it.

As a British-expat living in the States with contacts in Canada, it is only the Quebecians who want to fully convert to metric. Those on the western side of Canada are content with the way things are. Since the public in Canada is less informed about weights and measures than the intellectuals on SABRE, it has led to a mix up of imperial and US Customary at times. Canada will also never fully convert to metric as it uses the North American standards for many applications, such as construction, and half of the material is imported from the US, which uses US Customary, and generally Canadians are an odd species. However, I encourage they keep on using the imperial system, as if I ever want a proper pint, instead of the 16 US fl oz BS, I could just hop north of the border for a day. :D
It's simply inaccurate to say that UK road signs are in Imperial - speed and longer distances may be but height, width and weight are dual - and so many of the UK general public were taught metric only at school that a majority use metric - most beer is consumed from metric cans at home rather than in pub pints - maybe your time in the UK is so long ago that things have changed here.
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Re: How accurate are distance signs?

Post by Having a cuppa »

ChrisH wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 13:35 Your experience is interesting and may be representative - I'm not sure. Certainly my group of friends and family are far more metric-friendly than you - we measure weight, height and area in metric measures, with miles, and miles per hour, being the only imperial measurements we use often.
Hmm, there is only one person I know who lives in the UK who doesn't even measure his height in feet and inches. His parents are immigrants from Eastern European countries, but he has lived in the UK for all his life and he is the only person, besides from you, who doesn't even measure their height in imperial. What is interesting is the first generation of people immigrating to the UK from countries with no historical ties tend to keep thinking in the metric system, or local system of measurements, such as the Hong Kong or Japanese systems. When the first generation gives birth to the second generation in the UK, the second generation is raised adopting both imperial and metric for different purposes despite their parents having limited to no knowledge of imperial. I witnessed that years ago with a girl born to a French father and Polish mother, and present day in the South of London with immigrants from the Middle East and particularly the North of Africa. Your case is very curious indeed.
Last edited by Having a cuppa on Thu Feb 04, 2021 14:03, edited 1 time in total.
My car gets 90 leagues to the firkin and that's the way I like it!
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