New traffic lights for Hogarth Roundabout... again

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Chris5156
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New traffic lights for Hogarth Roundabout... again

Post by Chris5156 »

It looks like TfL are replacing the signals at the Hogarth Roundabout (A4/A316) in West London. Existing signals, including poles, have all come down, and temporary lights are up while new poles are being installed.

Nothing unusual there, except that the lights at Hogarth weren't old - they were installed some time between 2010 and 2014. You can see them on GSV from last year, looking really quite new.

The lights that have just been removed replaced an experimental installation of Techmiracle Alustar signal heads, which went up in about 2007 and lasted until about 2010.

I make that a third brand new installation of signals at this one junction in the last 15 years. It's certainly not TfL standard practice to replace lights this often, and there appears to be nothing particularly different from one installation to the next - the sequencing appears to be about the same, the lights are all in roughly the same positions and the configuration of the junction hasn't changed at all. By contrast, one junction west on the A4, at Sutton Court Road, there are still some Mellor signal heads up.

What's going on? Do we have anyone in the know who can explain why these are being ripped out and replaced all over again?
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Re: New traffic lights for Hogarth Roundabout... again

Post by traffic-light-man »

What's interesting is that they've clearly replaced the LED AluStars for halogen Peek Elites, which seems like a bit of a backwards step.

I would presume they're upgrading the halogen Elites to LED, and it'll likely become an ELV site, so new controller and possibly cabling too.

It's seems strange on the surface, but there could be legacy infrastructure in the installation that's no longer fit for purpose and causing problems or safety concerns, so it's better to rip the whole lot out and start again.

All speculation though, I'm afraid!
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Re: New traffic lights for Hogarth Roundabout... again

Post by AndyB »

Are they possibly making a surface level pedestrian route?
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Re: New traffic lights for Hogarth Roundabout... again

Post by L.J.D »

No worse than the Oxford Circus lot they were brand new peek elites when the X crossing was put in and then a few years later they were all changed to Telent 4G heads and not just the heads poles and whole installation was ripped out for some stupid reason considering they could of just retrofitted LED units into the peek heads.
Last edited by L.J.D on Tue Apr 06, 2021 08:00, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New traffic lights for Hogarth Roundabout... again

Post by Gareth »

A childhood memory in Liverpool was when they replaced all the tin lanterns at the top end of London Rd with mellors c1991 only to change the road layout by partially pedestrianising it and making Pembroke Pl two way. So, more mellors. The worst bit is the junction at Norton St only needed altering slightly on one leg, which could've just involved relocating a couple of poles but they were all replaced like for like. It can't have been more than a year between the two events.

Still remember seeing some old poles still standing in the pedestrianised area with no signal heads and wires sticking out, before they'd completed the public realm works.
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Re: New traffic lights for Hogarth Roundabout... again

Post by Chris5156 »

traffic-light-man wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:25 What's interesting is that they've clearly replaced the LED AluStars for halogen Peek Elites, which seems like a bit of a backwards step.
I've got a feeling the Alustar installation was an experiment, and when it ended TfL evidently didn't decide to adopt them, so the whole installation was replaced with Peek Elites which were standard for TfL at that time. That much I can understand.
traffic-light-man wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:25It's seems strange on the surface, but there could be legacy infrastructure in the installation that's no longer fit for purpose and causing problems or safety concerns, so it's better to rip the whole lot out and start again.
Quite possibly so, but you'd hope that would have happened five years ago when the last lot of signals went in!
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Re: New traffic lights for Hogarth Roundabout... again

Post by AndyB »

Potential explanation:

When the experiment ended, the maintenance contractor said “look, these are non-standard heads, we don’t have the Alustar kit and don’t want to be ordering it in for the sake of one junction” and got the go-ahead to fit second hand Peek Elites from old sites on the basis that full renewal wasn’t too far away.
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Re: New traffic lights for Hogarth Roundabout... again

Post by Bryn666 »

AndyB wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 21:39 Potential explanation:

When the experiment ended, the maintenance contractor said “look, these are non-standard heads, we don’t have the Alustar kit and don’t want to be ordering it in for the sake of one junction” and got the go-ahead to fit second hand Peek Elites from old sites on the basis that full renewal wasn’t too far away.
I'd buy this quite happily, truth be told, Andy!
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Re: New traffic lights for Hogarth Roundabout... again

Post by Gareth »

Are Alustars even made anymore? They always looked snazzy and somewhat "continental" when new but I don't know anywhere where they were ever particularly popular. Liverpool's sole installation has missing hoods and a helios casual replacement. Looks pretty scruffy. Seems they were never seen as reliable as competitor products.

Funny, because their close Swarco relative is quite possibly the most popular model for new installations in many continental countries.
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Re: New traffic lights for Hogarth Roundabout... again

Post by ravenbluemoon »

AndyB wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:36 Are they possibly making a surface level pedestrian route?
To be fair the subway routes aren't too bad under the Hogarth - had a friend live right next to it, and we would park cars on the Brewery side of the A4 (hoping their lorries didn't hit them, again...). There's decent cycle/wheelchair ramps on either side, with CCTV that probably works. I reckon it's quicker than relying on having to cross several arms of the roundabout on the level.
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Re: New traffic lights for Hogarth Roundabout... again

Post by L.J.D »

Gareth wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 17:45 Are Alustars even made anymore? They always looked snazzy and somewhat "continental" when new but I don't know anywhere where they were ever particularly popular. Liverpool's sole installation has missing hoods and a helios casual replacement. Looks pretty scruffy. Seems they were never seen as reliable as competitor products.

Funny, because their close Swarco relative is quite possibly the most popular model for new installations in many continental countries.
Could of sworn it was Motus Traffic who made them in the UK and they went into administration a few years back so I doubt we will see anymore UK versions installed unless someone buys the design rights?
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Re: New traffic lights for Hogarth Roundabout... again

Post by traffic-light-man »

Colas ITS have taken on the Ultra, but I doubt they'll keep the AluStar going. I'd be interested to know if MOTUS actually ever managed to sell any AluStars.

The Swarco Futura is getting a good look in these days, which appears hideously in the UK under the guise of the Telent 4G.

Liverpool seem to have tried hard to make at least 2 of the 4 casual replacements at Picton Road look like the former AluStars by sticking the border directly to the front of the signal heads, which looks terrible!
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Re: New traffic lights for Hogarth Roundabout... again

Post by Craig91 »

The Strand / Lancaster Place junction in London is being upgraded again - the third set of traffic lights since GSV began from the looks of it.
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