The irish rural speed limit sign?

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ajuk
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The irish rural speed limit sign?

Post by ajuk »

Does anyone know if there's any research been undertaken on the adoption of a NSL symbol to replace the old 80kph signs in Ireland to see if it improved safety?
Last edited by ajuk on Sat May 07, 2022 02:03, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The irish rural speed limit sign?

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ajuk wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 02:26 Does anyone know if there's any research been undertaken on the adoption of a NSL symbol to replace the old 80kph signs in Ireland?
The sign did not replace the 80km/h sign. It is only for use on boreens where the explicit indication of a 80km/h speed limit is seen as a joke.

https://assets.gov.ie/34749/59cea271762 ... 1b8082.pdf
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Re: The irish rural speed limit sign?

Post by PhilC »

My cynical side suggests that the default rural limit could be easily changed (i.e. reduced) on such roads without the expense of having to install new signage.
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Re: The irish rural speed limit sign?

Post by AndyB »

At metrification, they decided to set speed limits according to class of roads. R and L roads were 80km/h unless a TRO and signage stated otherwise, whether the L road was a boreen or a half decent S2.
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Re: The irish rural speed limit sign?

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PhilC wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:58 My cynical side suggests that the default rural limit could be easily changed (i.e. reduced) on such roads without the expense of having to install new signage.
If the speed is written on the sign and you change the speed limit then you have to change the sign. The issue is not the speed limit, it is that the driver should drive appropriately. The speed limit is not a target, it is a legal restriction. Going around putting appropriate speed limits on every section of rural roads that have wide bits and narrow bits and twisty bits and straight bits is not a good use of public resources.

This is all caused by twitter and the like and people posting pics of signs as if a speed limit was a recommended speed.
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Re: The irish rural speed limit sign?

Post by Having a cuppa »

The Irish rural speed limit sign reminds me of an old motorway sign from Montana, where the exact speed limit is vague. (I've never been to Montana by the way, I have just seen a few pictures before.)
https://www.google.com/search?q=montana ... JIxFnCvgGM

The difference is Irish local tertiary roads still have a limit of 80 km/h while before the 2000s, in Montana there was no daytime speed limit. I suppose the purpose of the Irish rural speed limit sign is to indicate you CAN drive at 80 km/h but it doesn't mean YOU SHOULD. As far as Irish signs go, this one is very nicely designed, apart from the corners on the supplementary plate. https://www.google.com/maps/@53.2294419 ... 384!8i8192

*I posted the wrong Google street view link the first time.
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Re: The irish rural speed limit sign?

Post by Bryn666 »

Having a cuppa wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 19:04 The Irish rural speed limit sign reminds me of an old motorway sign from Montana, where the exact speed limit is vague. (I've never been to Montana by the way, I have just seen a few pictures before.)
https://www.google.com/search?q=montana ... JIxFnCvgGM

The difference is Irish local tertiary roads still have a limit of 80 km/h while before the 2000s, in Montana there was no daytime speed limit. I suppose the purpose of the Irish rural speed limit sign is to indicate you CAN drive at 80 km/h but it doesn't mean YOU SHOULD. As far as Irish signs go, this one is very nicely designed, apart from the corners on the supplementary plate. https://www.google.com/maps/@53.2294419 ... 384!8i8192

*I posted the wrong Google street view link the first time.
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Re: The irish rural speed limit sign?

Post by Chris Bertram »

The key advice from the Highway Code is "Drive at a speed that will allow you to stop well within the distance you can see to be clear". If we all did this, then speed limits would be effectively redundant. Sadly, speed limits that mandate speeds much lower than this are now much too common, and hence disrespect for signed limits is widespread even when the limit in question is justified.
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Re: The irish rural speed limit sign?

Post by Having a cuppa »

Bryn666 wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 20:54
Having a cuppa wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 19:04 The Irish rural speed limit sign reminds me of an old motorway sign from Montana, where the exact speed limit is vague. (I've never been to Montana by the way, I have just seen a few pictures before.)
https://www.google.com/search?q=montana ... JIxFnCvgGM

The difference is Irish local tertiary roads still have a limit of 80 km/h while before the 2000s, in Montana there was no daytime speed limit. I suppose the purpose of the Irish rural speed limit sign is to indicate you CAN drive at 80 km/h but it doesn't mean YOU SHOULD. As far as Irish signs go, this one is very nicely designed, apart from the corners on the supplementary plate. https://www.google.com/maps/@53.2294419 ... 384!8i8192

*I posted the wrong Google street view link the first time.
What did for "reasonable and prudent" was no-one could define it. One man's reasonable is another man's reckless.
Byrn, as some one who is every knowledgeable about signage, has the DfT, Highways England, or any other major body involved with British roads considered a "drive to conditions" sign? Before countries started explicitly stating speed limits for certain roads, many countries, such as the US or Australia, had some sort of "drive to conditions" sign, for stretches of road where there wasn't a speed limit.
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Re: The irish rural speed limit sign?

Post by Bryn666 »

Having a cuppa wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 22:01
Bryn666 wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 20:54
Having a cuppa wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 19:04 The Irish rural speed limit sign reminds me of an old motorway sign from Montana, where the exact speed limit is vague. (I've never been to Montana by the way, I have just seen a few pictures before.)
https://www.google.com/search?q=montana ... JIxFnCvgGM

The difference is Irish local tertiary roads still have a limit of 80 km/h while before the 2000s, in Montana there was no daytime speed limit. I suppose the purpose of the Irish rural speed limit sign is to indicate you CAN drive at 80 km/h but it doesn't mean YOU SHOULD. As far as Irish signs go, this one is very nicely designed, apart from the corners on the supplementary plate. https://www.google.com/maps/@53.2294419 ... 384!8i8192

*I posted the wrong Google street view link the first time.
What did for "reasonable and prudent" was no-one could define it. One man's reasonable is another man's reckless.
Byrn, as some one who is every knowledgeable about signage, has the DfT, Highways England, or any other major body involved with British roads considered a "drive to conditions" sign? Before countries started explicitly stating speed limits for certain roads, many countries, such as the US or Australia, had some sort of "drive to conditions" sign, for stretches of road where there wasn't a speed limit.
Prior to 1967 the national speed limit sign simply meant 'no speed limit', which was the closest to 'drive to conditions' we ever were.

Of course, 1966 was the worst year in UK history for British road fatalities, so it isn't a good period to emulate.
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Re: The irish rural speed limit sign?

Post by ajuk »

PhilC wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:58 My cynical side suggests that the default rural limit could be easily changed (i.e. reduced) on such roads without the expense of having to install new signage.
You could, but that may require repeaters, it would be impossible to enforce and people who would drive too fast would be some of the least likely to obey them.
I think there's a good reason to use a symbol and not a number and why I presume Ireland has dangerous and reckless driving laws. For all intents on those roads getting to the speed limit is mostly impossible if not scary so the sign might as well mean no speed limit. Plenty of the lanes in the UK functionally have no speed limit.
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Re: The irish rural speed limit sign?

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ajuk wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 02:26 Does anyone know if there's any research been undertaken on the adoption of a NSL symbol to replace the old 80kph signs in Ireland?
I recall that one year when I was driven through the Republic to see my grandad in Northern Ireland that all non-N rural roads had 80kph signs, and the next, around half had the new "Go Mall/SLOW" signs, kind of like a dashed version of our NSL sign (or the pre-kph Irish one). There must have been a major rollout sometime inbetween these two visits to Ireland.

I feel that the guidance I've read suggests that its rollout feels like little more than a rural equivalent of 20mph/30kph zones, on behalf of nimby residents in the countryside, especially since minor rural roads in the UK have no speed limit signs at all provided that they're subject to the NSL, as the vast majority are. I feel that the 80kph sign is much more informative than the "slow" alternative, and serves far more purpose for tourists than the yellow billingual "Drive on the left" signs you can find dotted along many major routes in the Republic of Ireland.
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Re: The irish rural speed limit sign?

Post by ajuk »

I think a similar sign in this country would be good, functionally the same as the NSL sign but looking slightly different with an advisory "30mph MAX SPEED" sign underneath it, for entrances to small villages that lack repeaters or street lights.
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